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1/2 3! pot should I shove turn 1/2 3! pot should I shove turn

10-10-2018 , 11:36 AM
Hero is been at the table for about 2 orbits and hasn't really gotten involved yet. Sitting around $290.

V1: Saw him raise to 15 over 1 limper with KJo and ended up winning a small pot at showdown with middle second pair. Sitting around $260. Also saw him limp in a couple times per orbit.

UTG +2 limps, V1 in HJ makes it $15, CO calls, Hero wakes up with AK and raises to $50.

UTG+2 folds, V1 in HJ calls, CO folds.

FLOP ($115) 10 5 2

V1 Checks, Hero bets $60, V1 takes about 15 seconds then puts in the call.

TURN ($235) 7

V1 Checks, Hero????

V1 has about $150-160 left.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-10-2018 , 12:48 PM
Bigger pre ($65-70), shove flop if you want to rep a bigger overpair than his.

You don't have any fold equity on the turn with V1 having less than PSB. He's probably not super-nutted here, but will almost certainly call it off with JJ-KK and ATs, all of which are in good shape against us.

Which hands do you think will fold to a turn shove here that called a 3! and flop?
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-10-2018 , 12:51 PM
The preflop $50 was useless. Now the pot is way to big and the SPR is almost 0.5.
So, you can't blow him away OTT and you still have no hand. You should have figure your bets in such a way as to have bet-leverage late in the hand. There's not much money left and the pot got way above the remaining stacks. He's not gonna fold and you going to lose if you don't make something OTR.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-10-2018 , 12:59 PM
As mentioned, bigger pre. This is one of the flops I’ll usually not cbet with AKs. T hits his range better than yours, he has plenty of middle pairs and all sets, and you have no backdoor draws to shove the turn on.

As played, check back and hope to hit the river or that V checks a blank river again with AJ+ and you either win or chop. He’s not usually folding for a 2/3 psb if he has anything.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-10-2018 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
Bigger pre ($65-70), shove flop if you want to rep a bigger overpair than his.

You don't have any fold equity on the turn with V1 having less than PSB. He's probably not super-nutted here, but will almost certainly call it off with JJ-KK and ATs, all of which are in good shape against us.

Which hands do you think will fold to a turn shove here that called a 3! and flop?
Any AJ-AKs and 88-99 and possibly JJ. Maybe I'm wrong to think he would call that flop bet with AQcc or something like that.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-10-2018 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GooGoo6040
The preflop $50 was useless. Now the pot is way to big and the SPR is almost 0.5.
So, you can't blow him away OTT and you still have no hand. You should have figure your bets in such a way as to have bet-leverage late in the hand. There's not much money left and the pot got way above the remaining stacks. He's not gonna fold and you going to lose if you don't make something OTR.
I don't understand how preflop was useless.

Maybe I should of gone closer to $60-$65 with the other player calling the 15$ bet.

What if I have AA here, do you still think $50 is useless.

If I was out of position I would of probably made it $65 preflop.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-10-2018 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thin_slicing
Any AJ-AKs and 88-99 and possibly JJ. Maybe I'm wrong to think he would call that flop bet with AQcc or something like that.
Yeah, so at least half the range we're going to fold out is a range we're currently beating (AQ/AJ).

I don't know about your game, but in my games people generally don't call preflop for 1/5 of their stack with 88, and very few with 99.

AJo/AQo realistically don't call this flop either.

Realistically out of his raise/call range, the only thing that you might get to fold here is JJ (although I doubt it) and a bunch of 99 if he's a station that suddenly got scared.

Quote:
What if I have AA here, do you still think $50 is useless.
Yeah, but with these stacks, AA is literally never folding here, so you can just size it to whatever V will call. When we whiff with AK, we either want folds or we want to see all 5 cards first before making a decision on the river. It's not like we automatically have to put in the last 50% of our stack with A high when its not gonna get called by worse.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-11-2018 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
Yeah, so at least half the range we're going to fold out is a range we're currently beating (AQ/AJ).

I don't know about your game, but in my games people generally don't call preflop for 1/5 of their stack with 88, and very few with 99.

AJo/AQo realistically don't call this flop either.

Realistically out of his raise/call range, the only thing that you might get to fold here is JJ (although I doubt it) and a bunch of 99 if he's a station that suddenly got scared.



Yeah, but with these stacks, AA is literally never folding here, so you can just size it to whatever V will call. When we whiff with AK, we either want folds or we want to see all 5 cards first before making a decision on the river. It's not like we automatically have to put in the last 50% of our stack with A high when its not gonna get called by worse.
Thinking players don't but I see players call a big portion of their stack then fold all the time.

I don't think AJ or AQo would call either. I think AJs and AQs do call though.

Part of the reason I bet so small on the flop is to put hands like 88-99 and AQs/AJs in a really tough spot. It is the same sizing I would use there if I had AA or KK.

I also wanted to be able to shove turns and still have some fold equity.

This was my thought process at the time but maybe we would need to be another 60-100 dollars deeper for that to make more sense.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-12-2018 , 12:57 PM
RESULTS:

Hero does shove, Villain tanks for 2-3 minutes (maybe longer) and mucks. Asked me if I beat QQ and I just said "yeah".

I talked to my brother about it later and I'm guessing that he didn't have QQ.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-12-2018 , 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thin_slicing
RESULTS:

Hero does shove, Villain tanks for 2-3 minutes (maybe longer) and mucks. Asked me if I beat QQ and I just said "yeah".

I talked to my brother about it later and I'm guessing that he didn't have QQ.
Nobody folds QQ when AK bricks
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote
10-13-2018 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Nobody folds QQ when AK bricks
Especially after putting in 40% of their stack.
1/2 3! pot should I shove turn Quote

      
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