@PokerisEZ

I agree with what you comment above. I can see that the way V play is super profitable in a nit/tight table with player adjust incorrectly(most 1/2 player don't know how to adjust).

Almost every hand go like this: few limpers, V isolate to 15$-20$, 1-2 players call. and he take a pot by a half pot cbet. I just sit there and watch him take pot after pot after pot. he will also double barrel with good turn card and know when to fold/give up.

@PokerisEZ
Quote:
"And even if they do adjust, how do you know the villain won't re-adjust? Part of learning to play this style is knowing how to recognize opponents adjusting to it. You don't adopt a strategy that makes you the most active player at the table and expect people not to notice."

If u are the V, how do u re-adjust vs player already adjust? play tighter? only isolate value range? switch back to ABC style? would like to hear ur awesome advice. thanks

If I'm the V and I caught someone calling me down light in response to my aggressive play. I would....

1) Start playing my big hands super aggressively, getting extreme value
2) Isolate different players who haven't yet adjusted
3) Change tables and start over again
4) 3 bet more pre-flop. Because people play more straight-forward in 3-bet pots, allowing me to recreate the original winning dynamic, in much larger pots!

edit: also, you'll probably see more pot control lines.

One thing I would do is watch how he plays against calling stations. His style fails against those players, and there are usually a few at any given LLSNL table. I'm guessing you'll see him play a tighter value range, and probably give up earlier in hands or when scare cards roll off.

1) agree
2) agree
3) lol, yes is a option.
4) people at 1/2 tend to open a strong range of hand that they won't fold to a 3bet. ofc it depend on the player. some player only open AK+ QQ+, and limp all other things. against this kind of player I don't think 3bet is good?

how about just re-adjust by playing a ABC style(play tighter, value bet)? what do u think? thanks!

In order to be a good LAG you have to know when to go to a TAG. 1/2 are mostly clueless (see 90% of responses) and will just think you're an agro fish and pay you off. Once they see the nuts 3-4 times they MAY** adjust and then you just play LAG again.

The players you are targeting (limping in 5 ways) will never catch on and maaaaybe 1 or 2 of the better players will, then you just adjust only to them.

The guy you quoted had good advice, the majority of the rest is awful and are the players you're targeting.

The money in LLSNL comes from people who play too many hands. They don't open strong ranges. They open with crap. And they still call with it when they are 3 bet, using all kinds of nutso justification for it. They go to the flop with a range that contains too many hands. That means they will fold more often than not.


You just named about 2% of hands. So that situation should be rare and obvious. But as long as those players are limping everything else and then calling raises with it....they are committing the sin of 'playing too many hands' and c-bets will be profitable.

Well if someone has adjusted to you, they've become a calling station. So yes, play tighter and value bet. Don't bluff a calling station.

On the other hand, the calling stations are going to miss more flops than anyone. So there should still be plenty of money in c-betting them to death, as long as you're going to the flop 2 or 3 ways. If conditions change such that you can't get those 2 or 3 way pots as often, start getting them by 3-betting.

yes, PokerisEZ give a lot good advice. I agree with you, you can't keep playing super LAG, if they start to adjust we should re-adjust >TAG

Yes, against player who call 3bet wide. we can 3bet more and take the pot by cbet. because "he is playing too many hands"

agree! even against a calling stations. it can't change the fact that they are playing too many hands. if the calling stations will call flop cbet with bottom pair. I think is still profitable to "c-betting them to death" since they will miss the flop 66% of the times and our cbet only have to work 33% of the time(if we cbet half pot).

@PokerisEZ

should we use a limp re-raise strategy against this predictable isolater? is it a good way to adjust? so we limp re-raise (both open limp and limp behind) KJo+ 99+ for value. and maybe some A2 K7s 67s as bluff? or we should never limp? what do u think is good way to adjust against this aggressive player pre flop? V did 3bet wide and capable of 4bet bluff.

I literally answered the thread in twelve words in the first response.

No you shouldn't limp/reraise him because all you get out of him is one preflop bet rather than 4 bets in geometrically increasing proportions.

YOu can use a limp-reraise whenever it's appropriate to set up an SPR that is appropriate for your hand. If you have $400, and you raise to $15 with KK in EP, you get three callers, now the pot is $45 with $385 behind, and you're out of position against three people. That's not great.

It's a tactic you can use if you want to lower the SPR and set up profitable, and simple, stack offs for your hand. So I would stick to TPTK and overpair hands. AK, JJ+. I definitely would not be doing it as wide as 99 or KJo. The lower the SPR the harder it is for your opponents to make a mistake.

yes, but if u only limp re-raise JJ+ AK. this V will notice and won't give us any action. and as u know is hard to get JJ+ AK in live cash. so we just sit tight and watch him isolate super wide? and what will you do with something like KJ 99? should we ever consider limp call? or we should just open ourself and 4bet wider or flat his 3bet? thanks!!

This strategy pretty much ensures you will win small pots and lose big pots. Its a recipe for lighting money on fire. Once opponents know you are raising 30% of hands preflop, they will start calling with anything. This means bloated multiway pots with 3-5 opponents every time you raise. You cant blow that many opponents off their hand, and you will be running into a monster often.

Also, what warpig mentioned when he said that most opponents you are facing aren't deep stacked, another factor into why they wont be folding post flop.

Like I said before, this post reaks of inexperience from a tight player that watched an aggrotard go on a heater.

Because it will be rare, he won't necessarily catch on. And if he does, you just re-adjust. That's all. As far as getting action, the whole point of the limp/rr is to dictate a small SPR. It will be tough for him to get away from top pair, even if he strongly suspects you have an over pair. The math will compel him to call.


Don't play KJ. Remember, Plan A is to call down, so you want hands that can stand three streets of pressure. KJ isn't going to be good at showdown often enough for you to make a stand with it.

Play 99 for set value where appropriate. 3-bet in position. The usual rules apply with pocket pairs. They're pretty simple hands to play.

some thoughts in red

Play tighter and play looser are incomplete advice. It's really a little bit of both.

Super aggressive players make the mistake of betting too often. That's fine against players who fold too much, but a recipe for disaster against players who know what they are doing.

My advice is to play looser post-flop but play tighter preflop. You need less of hand to call this player down, but you need to play hands which are more likely to flop something. The bad adjustment some players make is thinking they have to play more hands against this sort of player, hoping to hit a flop.

As your opponent becomes more aggressive, more good hands become hands you should bluff-catch with rather than value-bet. Against a complete maniac, you start slowplaying almost everything, for example.

Against this player type who is raising too wide preflop, I would move to his direct left and 3-bet an expanded linear value range. In my experience most of these "LAGs" at the low limits suck and will not 4-bet enough and just call OOP.

Taking flops IP with initiative and a slightly stronger range = printing money.

when we are in position things get easier. we can 3bet wider value range, we can flat KJ in position since we know he is isolate super wide. but what if we sitting on his right? we fold KJ? and we just become the nit/ "patient" guy who waiting for a good hand to fight back.

so what do u do with hand like AJ KQ KJ 88? when this V on your left? just fold? limp call? open/fold? open/4bet? open/flat 3bet?

If we are both in late position I am open raising all of these hands. If i get 3 bet I'll go with my reads. And would try to change seats if I can.

If he's cont betting close to 100% that's very exploitable and you should c/r w/ both strong made hands, and decent to good draws...

especially if you've been folding to him a lot- and be prepared to barrel

This strategy takes a lot of post flop skill- I don't think OP is the player for this

Save your c/r for strong draws on flop for starters- because you'll need to be barreling

And I'd be balancing strong made hands been by playing them both very aggressively and very slowly i.e c/ring and c/cing

*** and the simplest thing you can do against this player is to try to play him in position as often as possible... Always get on his left if a seat opens***

what a thread...
OP, don´t jump on bad advice... playing too many hands is a leak, and this guy is obviously doing it, he is NOT playing winning poker in the long run. he´s a weak losing player, and basically that´s all you have to know. just because he sometimes creates uncomfortable situations you are not used to doesnt make this guy a good player. he´s a fish and plays fundamentally wrong.

"The leak is basic. You commit too much money with low equity holdings. Picture investing in stock you know will go down." - citing that from the first page, it´s a very good metaphor and just everything you need to know.

^^^^^This^^^^^^^

Widening your opening range against a LAG is just silly.

Well, OP is describing my exact game plan in a 1/2 or 2/5 game and I've been beating both live and online cash for quite a few years. I suppose it's possible I'm fundamentally wrong, though.

There isn't one way to beat poker. What works in one game won't work in another and so on. The best players have multiple styles that they've perfected and play accordingly, no different than a good athlete.

If you can play well post flop and read boards well, you can crush playing soft LSNL games like this. That's the issue, though, the majority of the player pool do both very bad.

I don´t see any online cash games at reasonable stakes with multiple limpers you can raise with garbage and take it down, multiway pots where people limp/call and c/f most flops etc, and I also doubt you are playing unreasonable stats if you were able to win. highly doubt you could win even @ 6max playing much looser than 35/25, and even that statline would be very rare for a winning player. described player looked more like 50/40/??? and probably even looser, and you can´t win playing this way at somewhat serious stakes @stars I´m pretty sure.

If I see a VPIP over 30-35 6-max. I immediately target that players money. I have yet to be wrong about that read.


There is only one fake type where this style will work and everything has to be perfect for it to happen. It also has to stay that way and no game is static. Especially if someone is play in an extreme manner. It would only take one player adjusting for t to turn into a disastrous strategy.