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1/2 175bb deep what's our play? 1/2 175bb deep what's our play?

05-18-2014 , 10:09 PM
Hero has bought in for 100 and quickly(45 minutes) ran it up to 350
Probably seen as tight and running good

Villain is 20 something has not played to much but no indication he is a nit (later in session it is made very obvious he is a nit)

Hero utg +2 raises to 10 with ako
3 callers including Villian directly to my left

Flop aj2 two clubs (a and j) pot: 43$-2 for rake
I bet 27 Villian raises to 75 all fold to me
At this point I range him as combo draws, aj ,aq, ak(discounted because no 3!?) and possibly 22
I elect to flat
Turn is 7spades. Pot 188 after rake
I check to Villian who bets 125

What's our play here and why?
Folding flop was too nitty I believe against an unknown opponent who I believe can shut down in turn (bad thinking?)

What's the best options
C/c,c/f,c/r
C/r is obviously the worst and spew imo
If we c/c we seem committed

Any merit in leading turn instead??

Thanks
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-18-2014 , 10:27 PM
Why did you raise to $10 PF and not some other amount?
Why did you elect to flat on the flop when you ranged him as having TONS of stuff that calls a raise and is way behind you.

I don't think you have good answers to those questions, which is your problem, and not this potentially-nitty villain.

You need a plan for your hand. AKo makes top pair, and that plays good against fewer opponents, with low stack/pot ratios. So raise more pre-flop. This hand plays itself if you go to the flop with $70 in the pot against one or two opponents. So if people will call $25 pre-flop with worse...then raise to $25. If not, think about limp/re-raising.

And when you flat the flop, you need to make a plan. You ranged your opponent as WAY behind, so you should be planning to get stacks in. Raising the flop and leading the turn are great ways to do that.

As played, fold. This hand is un-saveable.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-18-2014 , 10:43 PM
I agree this is a poorly played hand. The 10$ pfr was because the table seemed very tight pf and I only expected a caller the way the table has been. The way he bet tho seemed more like he was setting me up to be ai on river. I could not see him doing this with anything I beat.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-18-2014 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockydawg
I agree this is a poorly played hand. The 10$ pfr was because the table seemed very tight pf and I only expected a caller the way the table has been. The way he bet tho seemed more like he was setting me up to be ai on river. I could not see him doing this with anything I beat.
If you were only expecting one caller....then you DEFINITELY didn't raise enough Pre-flop.

And as I said.....as played, fold. Your gut feelings here are probably right. You're toast.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 03:32 AM
you were oop so the small flop bet let you be vulnerable to a raise and not know what to do.
bet the pot and if he raises there you are beat.

anyway i think you could get away from the hand after his first raise.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 03:47 AM
V raised an ace high flop with two players behind him. They always put you on AK. You're probably drawing real thin if not already dead. Sounds nitty but I would just fold the flop. Folding turn and kicking myself for lighting an extra $50 on fire.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 04:47 AM
With limited history, I'd b/f every street.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 09:27 AM
fold flop alllll day @ 1/2, a flop raise into a multiway pot on an ace-hi flop is serious biz
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 10:55 AM
Couple of points. To the people saying raise pre more. It's always table dependent. OP says $10 usually gets 1-2 callers, so $10 is good or his read is bad.

I'd probably fold the initial flop raise without a better read on V. His bet is too large to call and evaluate turn because the pot is so large now, our only turn play is to bluff or hope we spike an A or K and hope we are still good (which we may not be). As played, we really have to fold the turn.

My biggest WTF observation and maybe it's a typo, but where are you playing where a $43 pot pre-flop only drops $2??? Where I play, and where most people play, it's $5 + $1 for bbj. I want to play where you are playing.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 12:12 PM
you just got to be careful with these small half pot bets that you fold when raised. with the small bet it enables a cheap raise to run you out.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
you just got to be careful with these small half pot bets that you fold when raised. with the small bet it enables a cheap raise to run you out.
Very true. But I would argue most llsnl players don't have the testicular fortitude to pull this off. Sure, you get bluffed on occasion, but no shame in that. I do think flop bet should be bigger though, given the draws out there. 30-35 seems right.

Also, post the read you had at the time, not the end read. Otherwise reults may get skewed. My reads evolve significantly during a session, but all decisions have to be made based on your read at the time.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 12:47 PM
true about the smaller players not making those plays often. but you must be aware of the ones that sneak in and do it. they will destroy you in the game until you catch on.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 12:50 PM
plus when playing deep or with decent sized stacks half pot bets give your opponent immediate three to one odds on the next card. that with any implied odds puts you in a bad spot everytime you are out of position.

against weak players that are payoff stations it works fine.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-19-2014 , 03:16 PM
Ya this was a poorly played hand. I ended up c/f turn because I really didn't know what I could beat except bluffs. 2-3 more hours into the session Villian played around 10-20% of hands and only showed down nutty hands. I think I made a good fold but still kicking my self for calling the raise on the flop given he raised with 2 more left to act.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote
05-23-2014 , 11:55 PM
I wouldn't donk the turn and I'm pretty much done with the hand at this point. V's bet means business.
1/2 175bb deep what's our play? Quote

      
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