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1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown 1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown

02-21-2016 , 05:42 AM
Hero recently sat at the table and has played 2-3 orbits and is known to half of the table, except villain. People have been getting out of my way and check-folding post flop. Played three hands, two of which were raise pre and c-bet, and one of which was 3-bet IP and c-bet. Image is TAG.

Villain is MAWG with WPT shirt (don't ask, idk, but it tells me he's not a noob), mid 40s, play seems standard, nothing unusual.

OTT:

Straddle, UTG limp, V (~$200) raises to $12, folds to hero in CO.

Hero reraises to $32 with JJ (~$250).

Folds to V who calls.


FLOP ($75):

8109

Villain checks.

Hero bets $50.

Villain check-raises all-in to $170.

Hero?
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 05:58 AM
Well, with the pot at ~$280 and $120 more to call, you're getting the odds to call no matter what the villain has.

Still, it sounds like V flopped a set, or has QQ.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 06:00 AM
So is this an auto-call, regardless of V's hand? If V shows any set or over-pair (set and overpair is virtually the same against our hand), face-up and shoves, do we still call?
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 06:33 AM
We have 32.6% equity against a set and we're getting 2.46-1 on a call so yes, even if he shows us a set, we call.

If he shows us QQ we only have 24% equity and need 29% to break even so we could fold.

Against KK and AA we're doing much better with 38.3% equity (If no spade, 36.1% if they do have a spade) so we'd call those too.

Add in the chance he has some sort of combo draw and it's a snap call!

I'm new to the math on all of this so someone please correct me if I'm wrong
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 07:09 AM
The WPT shirt makes it more likely he's awful.

You can't beat 88/99/TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA.

Why did you 3-bet pre? It seems like that move just guarantees all better continues and makes sure a lot of his worse hands fold. I'd try to get the opposite to happen.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 08:33 AM
As played, I'd call after committing > 40% of effective with outs to AA/sets/2 pr.

Pre is fine if you think the V straddle raising range is wider. Read is experienced player.

I'd check back the connected flop. Our equity edge seems small vs. hands that would call. Take the free turn and evaluate action.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
The WPT shirt makes it more likely he's awful.

You can't beat 88/99/TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA.

Why did you 3-bet pre? It seems like that move just guarantees all better continues and makes sure a lot of his worse hands fold. I'd try to get the opposite to happen.
I didn't know how to accurately range this player's EP opening raises, so I raised to define it better, increase the chance of making it heads up, and put more money in when I'm likely ahead.

If this was wrong, should I have called and taken the jacks multi way? If I had called the $12, there was a very good chance this flop would have been 5-way or more, and I would be in a fit/fold spot looking for a set.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardball47
So is this an auto-call, regardless of V's hand? If V shows any set or over-pair (set and overpair is virtually the same against our hand), face-up and shoves, do we still call?
For me, yes.

As to the 3-bet, in your spot (gaining information), I would have probably just called. However, I like your reasons for the 3-bet. It's just that I prefer to get my information for free as others play their hands.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 10:28 AM
If this was his first raise in 3 orbits I might consider calling but my standard play is to 3 bet them knowing that they're continuing range is 95% and 4bet range is 5%.

I'm also cbetting since I'm never in too bad of shape no matter what he has and I can charge spades as well as get him to surrender significant equity with two overs. Calling off is simple math.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
Calling off is simple math.
Yeah, that's what I figured during the hand. I knew I was behind (and I was), but felt I had to call (and I did) even though I didn't like it. Luckily, I binked a Q OTR. Villain had top set.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-21-2016 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
You can't beat 88/99/TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA.
It does, however, benefit from protection against the rest of a reasonable 10% range in addition to having the required equity vs Vs gii range to correctly bet-c.

There are certainly hands in our range that could benefit from protection that should NOT bet, but JJ is an outlier to taking a more PC line IP. OP should size a bit larger when betting flop here as well to get a fold once a while and make calling it off a little cleaner.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-22-2016 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardball47
I didn't know how to accurately range this player's EP opening raises, so I raised to define it better, increase the chance of making it heads up, and put more money in when I'm likely ahead.
3-betting just to narrow V's range will get really expensive.

It's not a matter of being ahead of his range. Are you ahead of his continuing range?
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-22-2016 , 02:25 AM
Are we getting the odds tho? We have to commit 120 to win 280 but at best he has overs which we are 3 to 1 dog. If he has a set we are even worse and he could have us nearly drawing dead with QJ. With no info I don't think we can put NFDs in his range.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote
02-22-2016 , 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
3-betting just to narrow V's range will get really expensive.
Yeah, I'm beginning to see that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
It's not a matter of being ahead of his range. Are you ahead of his continuing range?
It seems I made the mistake of not thinking that far ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SometimesMonday
Are we getting the odds tho? We have to commit 120 to win 280 but at best he has overs which we are 3 to 1 dog. If he has a set we are even worse and he could have us nearly drawing dead with QJ. With no info I don't think we can put NFDs in his range.
Maybe I was projecting what I would have done, but I couldn't see this villain calling a 3-bet with QJ OOP. At worst, probably with AQ.
1/2 ~100BB JJ against unknown Quote

      
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