A second thread for today, inspired by this post.

This happened many months ago when I was grinding up my bankroll at the £1/1 games in London, so my memory on some of the details are going to be kinda fuzzy.

It is the middle of the night on some weekend in the Vic, the people at the table have been refreshingly friendly and I have been getting along with them. I sat down with 200BBs, lost it, rebought, won some, am sitting on a stack of ~£500 now, mostly my own money. Am the deepest at the table, I think.

Prehand descriptions:
UTG+1: Some young-ish shortstack player. Kinda scared money, pretty bad player. Limps, hits a piece of the board, shoves. That kind of thing.

MP1: Recreational 30-something year old player, friendly and talkative. A few hours ago at midnight, he declared that he had to go to get the last train home - he then realised he was winning quite a bit, and felt it was too good to leave. Limps everything preflop, limp-calls most of that range. Early on in the night when he had just started playing I doubled him up by value-towning myself when I value-shove a broadway on the river in position (thinking I'm a genius) and he check-calls with a mid flush which hit on the turn. He is passive passive passive and plays his draws passively.

BTN: Young semi-reg, I see him from time to time and he's decent enough to know what a preflop hand ranking chart looks like. Pretty straightforward and ABC, which isn't really a bad thing. Has just moved over to this table from another table with less action, has been sitting tight so far but has only played an orbit or two.

Me: University-age internet kid, very aggro, chatty. People may think that I'm a complete maniac (especially in position), I'm not entirely sure if they do - my definitions of "tight" and "loose" are generally quite different from other people's. Lost a stack, rebought, made it back, now in the black.

Stacks:
UTG+1: ~£40
MP1: ~£450
BTN: ~£250
Me (SB): ~£500

I am dealt T9 in the SB.

UTG+1 limps, MP1 limps, there may be another limp, BTN raises to £6 or £7 (let's assume £7).

I decide to flat here OOP with mid suited connectors. With effective stacks of >200BBs, I think I can get into some good spots, especially when I know MP1 is definitely coming along, and maybe UTG+1 as well.

SB (me) calls £7, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop (£29): 8 9 T
(I'm pretty sure it was a rainbow board. I understand that the dynamic changes if it wasn't. Ugh if it wasn't so long ago...)

I check, UTG+1 shoves for £33, MP1 calls, BTN calls*

* = Physical tell: I had planned to check-raise this flop but didn't foresee it getting so much action. As BTN called the short stack's shove, he was clearly not entirely sure of what he should do. As I reached for my ponies (£25 blue chips) contemplating a raise, I could see him flinch in the corner of my vision, the standard "oh dear god, they've been cracked again" kind of reaction.

Action on me. What now?

It's also worth asking if I should even have checked the flop (I think checking was fine).

I would raise to $150. There is already $160 ish in the pot after you call the $33.

Raise to £140 seems about right, but i probably puke when MP1 reshoves. Dislike flatting here as you dont want to see Q/J/7 OTT.

Out of curiousity, what do you look like? Ive been playing that game regularly for the past 4 weeks, so i might have met you.

Oh dear, maybe the hands I think are interesting aren't really that thrilling. Thanks for the replies tho.

As it played out, the hand turned out to be real easy to play:


BUT, the more interesting question is regarding our overall plan for the hand.

Scenario 2:
I check, UTG+1 shoves for £33, MP1 calls, BTN calls, I check-raise to £135, MP1 calls, BTN folds.

Turn (£161 + £204): K
There are still effective stacks behind of just over £300. How now?

Scenario 3:
I check, UTG+1 shoves for £33, MP1 calls, BTN calls, I check-raise to £135, MP1 3bets all in (or 3bets to like £300. It's pretty equivalent), BTN folds.

Are we check-raise/folding the flop here?

The exact hands which occurred in this hand:

I'm afraid I haven't been playing the Vic recently at all, I think I might have gone in maybe once. Been grinding £1/2 at Empire + other smaller rooms, tho I think I did pop onto the £1/1 to run like god for a few hours maybe a month ago.

I wish I did not read the results but the temptation is too great! Poker gods punish indiscriminate loose passive play.

Anyway, if you make the c/r and the passive guy reraises (scenario 3), you are done with the hand. His checkcalling corpse rising from the grave is surely bad news for what is now a 4-outer at best. Even a button 3-bet scares the bejesus out of me.

In scenario 2, the K changes very little about relative ranges. It gives KQ and KJ another reason to call, so if you feel like you're ahead on the flop, go ahead and bet the turn for value.

If you tell me more about mp1, then maybe you want to respect his range a bit more on the flop. We know that 76 and QJ are in his range. Probably JT, 99, 88 also. But would he call the $33 with a hand like KQ? 87? 66? Does he call your checkraise with a worse two pair?
With the pot being protected I figure you will not be called as lightly, and you aren't getting additional value from the flop bettor (obv). We could argue for a call with the intent to bet a safe turn.

Agreed.

True, the K doesn't change much. But what would scare me is the fact that he cold calls my flop c/r in a protected main pot situation. Truth be told I could not for the life of me assign him a sensible range which would continue to my flop bet. I knew that he would definitely flat AJ, KJ, TJ type hands to the first bet on the flop, or any other draw + one pair hands for that matter. I expected none of these hands to call my c/raise, so when he did, I was very tempted to shut down on most blank turns. Which indicates that I probably didn't have a thorough plan for the hand.

After the dust had settled I discussed the hand with a few people who play that game and wondered if I could have just flatted the flop and tried to get more money in when I turn the nut boat. Truth be told I'm not sure how MP1 would react when I start shovelling money into pot when the board pairs, it seemed to me that he'd find a fold with the nut straight there.

Of course, someone pointed out to me that he continued to call it off after the turn card paired anyway, so he probably would've done the same in a dry side pot.

But I still think there's merit in raising the flop - mainly because I isolate a whole bunch of dead money by doing so.

no results yet, but I'd c/r about 180. So so many turn cards are not pretty on this board.

Nice suckout fish

Agreed. Ideally we're looking for a fold from MP1 I assume? Scenario 2 and 3 in post #4 suggest situations when he doesn't fold.

Indeed! If we were playing with cards face up I probably would not have played the way I played.

What would you have done if scenario 3 actually did happen. Are you snap letting go of your top two here?

MP1 slow playing worked out very nicely for you.

Yeah id put in a raisy daisy in that spot. As has been said if you are reraised by mr passive then you are getting out, unless of course you feel like turning the nuts?