Quote:
Originally Posted by megamen70
You’re just so high up in your range this should be a call anyway when you add in your image and the player description this is easy call
I thought that too at the time but having given it further thought...
I'm not sure this is true given I'd decided to take balanced lines OOP Vs this opponent. It's also 4-way to the flop so I'm checking a lot of hands even if I take unbalanced lines.
My open range is something like 99+ AQ+ BWs for a total of 100 combos.
I'll probably check the flop with AJs- and NFDs: KJss KTss.
I'll bet flop with AA 99 AK AQ TTsx JJsx JTss and KQhh KJhh KThh QJhh QThh JThh (30 value combos and 13 bluff combos so I'll be betting no more than half pot on this flop). I'm having to use some pairs as bluffs because I simply don't have enough draws to distribute between my check and bet ranges to balance my large quantity of AX. I suppose I could check some AQ on the flop but that seems silly 4-way vs loose players on a two-tone board
My check flop range (with hindsight after Qs turn) contains KJss KTss QQ AJs ATs KK KQs JJ/TT-no-spade QJ/QT/KJ/KT/JT-in-diamonds&clubs. So I have 17 combos stronger than KQs, 2 combos OESD and KKsx has NFD) and 14 combos weaker than KQs.
So really I'm kind of right in the middle of my range.
I agree I have an absolutely strong hand by comparison to Villain's betting range on the flop but that's more due to my initially very tight EP open range combined with V's very loose range AND him not betting flop. It's not really because of where I happen to be in my range.
What confused me and nearly caused me to fold river was KQcc/dd were in my flop X/F line so I almost thought "they're not a real part of my turn defence range because they're not in my flop X/C range". Thus I initially felt like I didn't need to bother defending river.
I guess this must be erroneous thinking. Just because I wanted to lose those hands on the flop to an expected position bet once they get through to turn they become part of balanced turn defence/give-up ranges. I think?
Is this right?
Because there's a danger when multiway and flop gets checked through that we end up with too wide and weak a range on turns such that if we take balanced lines we might value-own ourselves? This is particularly true in spots where we're one of the last players to check flop and we're the PFR because we really don't have any information about how strong the OOP players are since they'll routinely check their entire range to us on the flop.
Is this a legit concern or just my usual overthink?