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1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn 1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn

12-05-2018 , 04:20 PM
First post on here, any feedback appreciated.

1/1 game at the Vic in the early hours of Sunday morning:

Villain (300) raises to £6 from UTG+1. Villain has been playing fairly tight but passive and is a bit of a character, has been chatting a lot, joking around etc. Also was flashing around his high roller VIP Grosvenor black card but didn’t seem splashy or eager to get lots of money in the middle.

Cut off calls, Hero (450) calls on button with 7s6s, BB also calls.

Flop Ks8s6h. BB checks, Villain bets £25, cut off calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn 7c. Villain bets £65, cut off folds, hero...?

Last edited by MrQuelch; 12-05-2018 at 04:28 PM.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 04:23 PM
I probably flat again. If he's passive, he's folding worse and calling with better. Only cards we don't really want to see are A, K, Q, unless they are spades, so not fading too much.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 04:24 PM
Pre fine.

Otf I dont like a raise, we have SDV and if we get 3b here otf it sucks because we most likely have to fold. V is uncapped and should have KK/88/occasionally 66, CO may have some traps at some frequency, and BB has 88/66/86s (although we block a 6). I'd rather raise hands that have no SDV like 97ss and are fine calling a 3b. so i like the flat. plus the board is so draw heavy i dont believe we have much FE vs made hands.

Ott I just flat, this is a straight or two pair+ a good amount and we can play a river IP. Not folding.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 04:50 PM
Easy call, right?
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 05:07 PM
Thanks for the replies. From play I’ve observed I’ve got this player on the following:

AA, KK, 88, AK, KQsuited. I can also conceivably see him doing this with Ace broadway of spades but I think he’s more likely to check turn there. I honestly think he limps KQo, T9 and 66 pre.

Anyway I ended up finding the shove to get value from AA and AK which are calls I thought this player would make. I’m also trying to protect my hand, at 1/1 there’s always a possibility of him turning up with a random 5 and somehow getting there! Also if he does have the worst case KK/88 I still have some outs. He ended up folding what he says was AA but I did not see this. On reflection, I’ve been thinking that the flat is probably the optimal play but a shove isn’t terrible?
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 05:12 PM
Definitely don't raise turn. Don't fold it either.

Yeah, I'm literally always calling here. We have other hands in our range that can raise for value. Also we keep hands like AA and AK in his range 100% by calling and he could easily value town himself with those hands on a river 6/7.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Pre fine.

Otf I dont like a raise, we have SDV and if we get 3b here otf it sucks because we most likely have to fold. V is uncapped and should have KK/88/occasionally 66, CO may have some traps at some frequency, and BB has 88/66/86s (although we block a 6). I'd rather raise hands that have no SDV like 97ss and are fine calling a 3b. so i like the flat. plus the board is so draw heavy i dont believe we have much FE vs made hands.

Ott I just flat, this is a straight or two pair+ a good amount and we can play a river IP. Not folding.
Oh woops thought BB led out. Mb.

Still flatting, i dont expect AA to fold often and he has sets, some straights
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-05-2018 , 07:36 PM
+1 for flatting. Player type will mostly have AK and KQ here and can still have AA. Looks like he can't have Kxss which is a plus. He might be terrible and barreling QQ-JJ.

Not thrilled if he shoves river on a brick but calling for sure. Did he really raise pre and cbet flop with 9Ts, 45s (particularly the spade combos)? Not very likely. KK,88,66 are all hands. I think there is enough AA, AK, KQ and randomness to make it a call.

We are going for value on a lot of rivers if he checks to us. 30-50% pot size bet given the pot will be ~$185 with him having about $200 left.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-06-2018 , 07:44 PM
Stuffing turn is fine. You have too many rivers to fade and an SPR of 1
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-07-2018 , 08:07 AM
Though the shove is not terrible in a vacuum - I play in the 1/1 games at the Vic myself and I'd always flat this turn rather than raise. I just think it'll make you more money because your turn raise will be perceived as absurdly strong by the 1/1 population in that game unless you're a known LAG/maniac. I expect most passive players in that game to fold worse and call better.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-07-2018 , 01:43 PM
Really useful feedback guys - thank you
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-07-2018 , 01:57 PM
It’s not really a spot you want to trap though. It’s not like stuffing 2pr on a wet board for equity protection/denial is an overplay. Technically, any A,K, or 8 sucks. But more realistically, any , 4,5,9, or T also suck because they create obvious flush/4 liners and you will not get value on them.

In a spot where you have the best hand most of the time, a low SPR, and every river sucks, sometimes it’s best to just rip her in and let villain decide.

Its easy to look at results and say “see, he folded AA to a shove”. But he’s also check folding >60% of rivers, and improving on another ~15% of them.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote
12-07-2018 , 05:10 PM
^ that's true, I hadn't properly considered the 4-to-a-straight rivers freezing the action.

I suppose also he says he folded AA but we don't know he's telling the truth. It just rings true with a bunch of the older tighter regs in this game. They're pretty loathe to pay off with one-pair - but I concede they're more likely to do it on this turn than on a 3-flush or 4-straight river.
1/1 bottom two pair and a flush draw on turn Quote

      
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