Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot <img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot

10-04-2014 , 11:32 PM
Villain is a LAG...

The session just began although I've played with this guy a lot.

Game is $1/$1 and effective stks are 200BB's

Folds to hero on btn and I open to $3 with Ad9d. Villain in sb 3 bets to $12, the BB folds and I call. Villain will be 3 betting all sorts of hands from the blinds way worst than Ad9d.

Flop comes Js2d3d

He checks and I bet $16 villain c/r to $42

Hero?
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-04-2014 , 11:34 PM
What is your image with V? I prob shove here with a clean image, and at almost always 12+ outs.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 01:13 AM
My image was aggressive, but solid. Kinda why I didn't want to do the aggressive move vs. this villain because he's never folding a J with any other diamond. So I'm behind when he calls unless he has something like 45 with one or two diamonds. I do however think shove is correct here most of the time.

I thought there was a chance he only had a fd as well and wanted to insure I got it all if we hit vs. him folding now. After thinking about it for 2 minutes I realize there is a good chance this villain may have just got it in with me with a worst fd making it an even better play.

Edit:

I guess I'm asking how to play this hand vs. a player that will not fold if he has any decent diamond and pair and would even often call with hand like 77 here because he doesn't think I have anything. He doesn't fold often enough in these spots to feel like i have a ton of equity.

Last edited by BrickHouse; 10-05-2014 at 01:22 AM.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 01:38 AM
I'm trying to figure out any better hands that we can fold out that he's check-raised with. He's probably not check-raising with better Aces, pp between 3-J, or bad Jacks that aren't also a flush draw, so those aren't really in his range to fold out.

That said, our raise has almost 0 bluff value. In which case, we'd have to be shoving for value. I'd like to know what range you have him on that makes this a value-shove.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 02:50 AM
I feel like he has weak jacks and not folding, middle pairs and sometimes still calling, 45...

He could also have air. That type of guy. I think because shoving has me at 9+ outs and aggression makes it easier to play vs. this type of player shoving is correct. He's putting us in weird spots on the turn if we don't pick-up equity a lot of the time and he isn't scared of the river either. Shoving here has to be the play and I knew it. Just pussied out because of early session jitters.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 03:02 AM
This is why I've been trying to work on slowing down at the table and really thinking out the hand. Sometimes I just get worked up trying to get river value from these type of players I'm playing passive and allowing myself to get put in tough spots on weird rivers.

I think if I play the hand correctly I could have checked back the flop, bet turn when ace hits, he still calls because he hands on, and then I lose a smaller pot when he smashes river. Instead I allowed villain to lead the hand and allowed him to feel like he could put me in a weird spot. Even if K doesn't come he's putting me in a spot there so often. Shipping flop gets folds from all those other hands that will end up putting me in weird spots on future streets. It's kinda betting for protection from future sizable bluffs.

Does this make sense?
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 03:48 PM
Quote:
I feel like he has weak jacks and not folding, middle pairs and sometimes still calling, 45...
You think this is his check-raising range on that flop?

If that is what you really mean, then you need to be checking behind on this flop.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 08:26 PM
you might always be behind when he calls, but he folds enough to still make it fine.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 11:06 PM
If we think we have 12 outs, it's a coin flip for the remainder of our stack, without considering fold equity.

But there's $82 (minus rake) in there already.

Our value equity is more than adequate.

Even if we think we have zero fold equity (and we ALWAYS have more than zero fold equity), we should shove it and love it IMO.

As a side benefit, we are also now immune to "scare" and "bluff".
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-05-2014 , 11:51 PM
Quote:
you might always be behind when he calls, but he folds enough to still make it fine.
What's his check-raise-fold range?
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote
10-06-2014 , 05:11 PM
His c/r - fold range is made up of AIR, gut shots and that's about it. I think he even calls with TT on this J high flop.

Checking behind is an option and maybe vs. this villain it's the correct play.
<img /1 200BB's fd on flop in 3 bet pot Quote

      
m