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0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit 0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit

05-22-2010 , 11:35 AM
my image is of a competent, sometimes aggressive player. effective stacks 200. villain is tight and sometimes doesn't believe i have a hand.

0.5/1 NL - 6 handed

UTG (200)
Hero SB (200)
BB (200)

Hero is dealt 77.

UTG raises to 6, folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop (18) K75

Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets 9, Hero calls 9, BB calls 9

if i lead out i don't think UTG would raise with a king so i think betting and check calling is more or less the same here while check calling does disguise our hand. if they both check they were probably going to fold if i bet and the board is really dry so i don't matter that much to give a free card so they can catch up.
once UTG bets she either has a king or 99+, she usually doesn't cbet with air. i think calling is better because check raising more or less tells UTG exactly what we have, if she has a king she would probably call but then shutdown for the rest of the hand and maybe even fold to a turn bet.

Turn (45) K752

Hero bets 10, BB folds, UTG calls 10

i wanted to bloat the pot and hoped a small donk would get raised since she might put me on some kind of straight draw. probably since i never do these small donks this didn't work and she just called.

River (65) K752K

Hero bets 60

hoping she has a king i went for a PSB. if i checked she might of checked behind because of my weird bet on the turn.

i think i could of got more value out of this hand. biggest mistake was probably not PSB'ing the turn. what about the rest of the hand? i think the standard play is just bet/bet/shove.. but what about my reasoning in slow playing the flop?

..thanks!

Last edited by djo; 05-22-2010 at 11:42 AM.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
bet/bet/shove
this.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 02:21 PM
I have got a good way to get value it is called "betting", you might have heard of it. Stop overthinking trivial spots. We have the nuts, live players are bad, lets bet, bet, shove and get as much money in as humanly possible.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 03:40 PM
You butchered this on turn/river. Lead bigger or just check again. Given small turn bet you should 100% expect him to bet a K on river. So c/r > psb. 2/3 pot might be best option given how you played it
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 06:37 PM
The turn you should have bet more just over half the pot, still would have got the same calls IMO, so there you left $20-30ish on the turn and then the river the PSB would have been $85-90, and you still get the same call, so IMO you left $55ish on the table.

Fattony, this kind of contradicts your stand on the other thread
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit2300
The turn you should have bet more just over half the pot, still would have got the same calls IMO, so there you left $20-30ish on the turn and then the river the PSB would have been $85-90, and you still get the same call, so IMO you left $55ish on the table.

Fattony, this kind of contradicts your stand on the other thread
They are very different hands. In this hand we don't run the risk of over-representing our hand by betting 3 streets.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djo
if i lead out i don't think UTG would raise with a king so i think betting and check calling is more or less the same here while check calling does disguise our hand.

.....


i wanted to bloat the pot and hoped a small donk would get raised since she might put me on some kind of straight draw
2 points:
- I don't think leading and c/calling the flop here are the same at all. Most live players bet wayyyyy too small in all circumstances (especially for value). If I'm ever trying to squeeze value from a hand I'd much rather be betting than calling.
- I find that trying to induce aggressive actions from opponents at low stakes live is an exercise in futility.

Also, lol @ gambit seemingly out to get fattony.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-22-2010 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csk30
2 points:
- I don't think leading and c/calling the flop here are the same at all. Most live players bet wayyyyy too small in all circumstances (especially for value). If I'm ever trying to squeeze value from a hand I'd much rather be betting than calling.
- I find that trying to induce aggressive actions from opponents at low stakes live is an exercise in futility.

Also, lol @ gambit seemingly out to get fattony.
No not out to get anyone, it was just 2 threads we were debating at the same time.

I agree that majority of live players do not understand bet sizing, the bet each street as a dollar value, if $30 is alot to them it doesn't matter if the pot is $120, they still bet $30. So I am assuming that you are saying you need to take control of the pot size, if you bet $18 they will call $18 but if they bet $9 and you try to raise them the min to $18 they fold. On this hand here I know he has a K when he bets and it is top pair so he is going to call all streets as long as you do not shove, if you bet 75% each street they will call every street.
So I agree if you let them take the lead you are getting the minimum they are willing to lose, betting out you can almost always get closer to the max, now the K on the river they are done.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-23-2010 , 03:23 AM
if we lead the flop and get raised, what is our line now? good chance imo villain will fold tptk to a 3bet on the flop. do you we call and lead turn?
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote
05-23-2010 , 03:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djo
if we lead the flop and get raised, what is our line now? good chance imo villain will fold tptk to a 3bet on the flop. do you we call and lead turn?
You call and then check-raise turn. Bet river if he checks behind on turn.
0.5/1 - maximizing value out of a flopped set OOP vs. a nit Quote

      
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