Thanks for the background information. I don't follow many individual people's lives here, so I don't know* who anyone is. (*and to some level... don't care?)

It's more of a rhetorical device.

The observation still stands. Anyone thinking of paying cash for a new car is living in a very different world than the rest of us.

I'm about 90% sure you make more than I do, so that would make me the 1st or 2nd poorest person on the list.

I speak to the world I live in and the world I see. I've learned about money because that's important when you don't have as much of it. The knowledge has served me well. I'm approaching 40 years old, make 5 digits, give 5 digits, and am a few years from owning a modest home outright and halfway to 7 digits in a retirement account.

And even if the advice is useless to those actively chatting it up in the thread, I'm sure there's more than a few lurkers hanging around at my level that could benefit from advice for the people at my level.

Oddly enough, I've broken bread with most of the people ITT. For financial advice, shouldn't you care? Most financial advice is pretty path specific.
Fair enough.
For even the poorest person in this thread, you have a couple choices. Don't buy new. Save, save, save. Again, "the rest of us" is a rhetorical ploy, because most of the people you're talking to are mid-stakes or higher poker players.

I'll go back to my opening point, a significant milestone in your financial existence is to stop borrowing money for cars. This isn't a minor point.
This I'm almost 10 years older than you, and adjusted for the timeline, you're doing fine.

You're somewhere between moderately wealthy and millionaire, with some shot of hitting decamillionaire by the time you stop. I assume you're already in the used car buyer group who doesn't take loans. If not, my advice is soundly pointed at you. Even at 3% or 4% don't borrow money for depreciating assets. You already own your home, so from this point forward, credit score should be a passing curiosity. Congratulations on your sound financial decisions to date. You're no longer in the "don't have much of it" demographic. Wonder if your welcome packet got lost in the mail.

I don't find that odd at all.

In some ways, yes. In some ways, no. Money fundamentals apply at all levels, and having more doesn't necessarily protect you from making bad mistakes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/better/money...y-says-n342016

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/ever...ey-afraid-ask/

I think leasing a car is burning money at every price point and shouldn't be done except in the rarest of circumstances. For people who are worried about not taking a loan for a depreciating asset, how on earth do you justify doing essentially that but ending up with no actual asset at the end of the term?

That's pretty much the definition of "penny wise, pound foolish."

The "us" in that case was probably misaligned in that statement. I'm at the median income in my area, but financial decisions over the previous decade have put me in a position where the "us" doesn't actually apply. I could probably squeeze out $35,000 for a new car if I needed to. But I'd still buy a $20,000 used car and expect that there will be less than $15,000 in things to deal with from the previous owner.

I appreciate the affirmation, but this wasn't even a question in my mind.

There's something to be said about not forgetting one's roots. I have enough money to be stable in my own life. The excess is to be used to the benefit of others.

I still have that picture somewhere But it's about 8 years old and from a period in my life where my financial decisions were dubious at best. At the time, bankroll = net worth which is a way of life I will never return to and am happy is behind me. Even that PNIA session in October was back when I was running pure and willing to be a little bit frisky for fun as a one-off sort of thing. I try to avoid playing bigger than 2/4 limit or $50 blind big bet now as I think playing any bigger is unhealthy for me psychologically but sometimes I don't have much of a choice. My honest preference in life right now would be to play about 40 hours a week over 4-5 days of $20 or $25 blind NLHE in a social game. Unfortunately that doesn't exist for me so I have to get my social workplace experience in other games.

2018 me tries hard to be a financial nit and even though my heart says "lease a new Audi Q7" my brain says "buy a 2018 Mazda CX5 when they release the 2019". I'm really not much of a car person but I do enjoy luxurious things in general. After 6-7 rather poor months of poker and declining quality of games, spending a significant amount of money is the last thing I should be doing, but I can really just feel my car crumbling and it needs a replacement sooner rather than later.

*note* I got drunk last night, borrowed 10k and wound up playing 50/100/200 no limit by the time the night was ending so my actions sometimes don't reflect my words. For the most part I am just a dude trying to grind as much as he can and make a few dollars in a place that costs way too much to live.



All your advice is much appreciated

Buy a used car.

If you're not familiar with the Awkward Yeti comics, there's a whole line of heart and brain comics that you might relate to. (Or you might look at it and think it's absolutely stupid. It's the kind of comic that either hits perfectly or misses completely.)

http://theawkwardyeti.com/comic/financial-prowess/

http://theawkwardyeti.com/comic/control/

If you can afford the day or two of inconvenience (ie, not having a car for a couple days), just plan to buy a new car when your current car finally gives out on you. You probably have much more time with it than you think, and at least this way you can know you've maximized the value of the car you have.

And maybe in the time that you're stalling, you might find that the price of the car you want has started to come down an extra little bit, and you'll still get what you want but at a better price for just waiting around a few extra months.

Car repair is another complex, opaque topic for which you should reach out to skilled, trusted friends whenever possible.

If you start by making false claims about cars, followed by saying that a friend in the "auto industry" advised you to hit the gas tank with a hammer because the car won't start and "shrug"... I'd tell you it's bad advice, even though I know that it's literally possible for such a move to be a useful diagnostic step.

Edit: There's also a difference between a knowledge basis for activity and a skill basis for activity and blah blah blah...

Buy a Toyota or Lexus beloved by Consumer Reports and sell it the first time it needs a repair, maybe 150k or 200k miles later.

I've kinda been playing that waiting game for a while now and I think it may finally be time. Been having an ongoing rear tail light issue for about a year now. 3rd time it's crapped out on me and I got my mechanic to do two different cheap fixes the first two times. He said if it dies again, he knows what the issue is and that it will unfortunately be quite expensive. Been driving with the 1 busted tail light for probably 4+ months (maybe longer. Been aware that it died for over 4 probably). As of a couple weeks ago it sounds like the front suspension is completely shot. Registration (and smog check) is due at the beginning of June for me. I forget what the regulations are for selling cars in California, but I suspect I need to get it smogged even if I sell it tomorrow, but right before renewing registration still seems like a decent time to get rid of the thing. And I really, really don't want to sink any even remotely significant amount of money into it. It's a 2006 Jeep Liberty and has given me more issues than any of the other 3 cards I've owned despite being at only like 75k miles. I'll be glad when it's gone but I'm a cheapskate.

My previous car was a Lexus RX300. Had 280k miles when I got rid of it and it had no significant mechanical issues until around mile 275k. It was an absolute warrior.

That's sounding pretty rough. On the other hand, my roommate had a car in similar condition and it held out for an extra 9 months before finally giving up the ghost. It was an old 90s pick-up. There's a lot of variance in when that last component is going to break.

MacauBound might have better advice on this, but I wouldn't bother selling it as a private sale (which would require the smog) and just try to get some value as a trade-in (which I think does not require smog). Again, I'd recommend Carmax. Limp it over there and get a written appraisal and use that as leverage for possibly a trade-in when purchasing your next car. The dealership will almost certainly quote you a lower trade-in value than what Carmax is willing to do. At the right moment, show them the written quote and make them figure out how they're going to make up the difference.

Also, just for fun:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/513/129-cars

This is just one car dealership at one particular moment in time (2013), so I don't claim that this is representative of anything. But I thought it was an interesting listen when I heard it a few years back.

To which I'd quote you to you.

If my mechanic friend of 20 years tells me I should get the gas pedal replaced and someone who admits he doesn't know me or my car says that the average American's average car doesn't need the gas pedal replaced, who do you think I should trust?

Trust whomever you want. It's your car. It's your money.

But if you think "replace your gas pedal" is anything like "close credit cards you don't use to raise your credit score" then you either know nothing about cars or nothing about how your credit score works or possibly both.

Edit: A more apt analogy would be if your friend told you to flush your engine with kerosene to clean it. There just might be some situation out there where that doesn't destroy your car. And you might be in that very special circumstance. But it's really bad advice to follow.

And if your mechanic friend can't give you reasons why you should replace your gas pedal, but tells you to do it anyway, I wouldn't trust him, no matter how long you've known him.

Ah that's what it is - Jeeps not good mechanically (esp in the early-mid 2000's) and their service is expensive due to being a standalone brand in it's own category. That suspension problem (and bad trannys, or 'ladies' as they were referred to in another post I believe) is common and the worst part about it is that you can bring it to a mechanic and get it "fixed" only to find out like a month later that the same problem is back. Belieeeve me, I lost plenty as a POM trying to figure out what was wrong w the few Jeeps we decided to retail.

The Toyota/Lexus otoh do last forever. I was not surprised to find out that 2 of the wicked smaahtest guys here (one of whom barely posts anymore, both in CA) owned older Toyota Corollas bought new or used in cash, I believe. Pretty impressive decision-making for "non-car biz" guys, as was your Lexus RX purchase, most likely.

Aaron is prob right about avoiding the private party sale on this one. Dealers have to take your trade. Private party is the way to go w some cars, but not w a car like this - when the guy wants to bring it to his mechanic, asks you all these service questions, etc. But I wouldn't waste too much time on bringing it to any dealers just for them to give you a trade allowance figure (if you're not buying their car, esp when you don't know how they will ACV it or what other games they will play when you're not a serious buyer).

If you really want to shop your trade, first figure out which car you are going to buy (if buying new). Then, dress it up nice as possible and bring it to 2-3 Mazda stores or 2-3 Audi stores, so you're not getting apples to oranges numbers. Every dealer has a different pre-owned philosophy and every POM has an individual philosophy. In your specific spot, how the trade is handled should determine whether you get a good deal or not.

Dealers give you less money, but if you can drive it in before midnight when the prince turn into a toad, you might be able to get over on the dealership and saddle them w a lemon (I lost a few bucks on Jeeps by putting too much money on the appraisal), as they will be incentivized to step up on your trade when you are buying a car. Don't sell it to a dealer - they will always give you less than if you are trading it in and buying their car.

I think the Mazdas are fine cars and their SUVs lease out pretty well iirc. From a luxury standpoint, you may be able to get almost all the same bells and whistles as you would get w an Infiniti or Lexus, w the high end trim level choice. There's not the same brand identification, but that doesn't matter much imho. So you could buy one or lease.

Here in Boston, AWD is almost a must. Out there, it's def not needed. I think AWD adds 2-4k to the price of any new car. I'm not sure if Audi makes the Q7 w/o Quattro, so that's something to consider. If my poker bankroll was my work tool, I would not have the car I do.

tl dr - best thing to do w a car that isn't worth **** if the dealer knew what was up w it? Get the car in as good enough condition as cheaply possible the day before the appraisal test drive and pretend the car is in fine mechanical shape, if it drives ok. Don't limp it in, cuz it'll give the dealer all the leverage on the appraisal. Your trade will be the biggest variable of your next vehicle purchase; that is abundantly clear. I still have access to Carfax reports and appraisal software if anyone that is actually about to buy a car needs a free Carfax and wants to know what their car is actually worth in the market they are located.

A really cool mod would pm the mod of BFI and suggest viewing this thread and breaking it out into a thread in that forum.

I can drop this pieces of this thread there, any time. Can't make it stay, but...

I've never looked at that forum, beyond the rental property thread. Lots of good advice.

You guys know when Sean says 2/4 limit, he's saying 200/400? So 10k or 20k to buyin. At literally any point, cashing out a nice win > a nice used Avalon.

I'll stick with CR, they would have hated the jeep. They love most Toyota and Lexus products. Guess Infinity gets . I currently drive a 97 Outback, so cool cars are in the past, like my old S2000. Sean, if you want a reliable silly fun car, that's a great one.

At Carmax (and I know you're going to hate me for bringing them up repeatedly), the appraisal team works independently of the sales team. Their business model (at least on this front) is that they think they know how much they can get for your car, and then they try to buy it off you for something below that number. And that's it. It's not a bargaining chip to get you to buy a car. (Maybe it's just about getting you on the lot with 30-45 minutes of dead time to fill.)

They give you a written appraisal and will honor it (within 7(?) days) regardless of whether you buy a car. And they know that people take the written quote elsewhere, comparison shop, and have time to go online to look at what else is available, plus it's a take-it-or-leave-it number. (And the last time I did it, it was reasonably quick, which was nice.)

They aren't really set up to be incentivized to play games and you'll get a reasonably "true" appraisal. I won't say that you will the highest number from them, but it should get you a good baseline value to work with and it creates a floor that other places know they have to compete against.

One can have lots of money but want to make good financial decisions. "I can afford to buy this" is not the same of "it is a good financial decision to buy this."

Possibly.

But the difference would be that I don't read a Chilton manual and consider myself a car repair expert or WebMD and consider myself a doctor or WITHG and consider myself a poker expert or financial blogs and consider myself qualified to give advice over the Internet to people whose credit scores I admit I cannot guess within 100 points.

All those things - knowing car repair basics, looking up your diseases, getting a rough guide to starting hands, knowing financial basics - is definitely better than not knowing anything. But the further you drift from "Average American, Typical Situation" the more you should rely on experts.

That's enough of a concession for me to be content. If you had information/knowledge that was useful for me understanding more about credit (or cars), I would have been content to listen. You've had opportunity to explain things and present information. And you've even had the opportunity to contact your "friend" (I'm less and less convinced that this person is actually a friend) and get clarification for yourself first, before even thinking about sharing it with others, but you have chosen not to.

But if you're just going to keep insisting that "private knowledge that basically nobody recommends anywhere was special to me even though I have no idea what I'm talking about" then congratulations on your special-ness and good luck with your delta.

https://www.google.com/search?q=shou...y+credit+score

Thank you.

I hope that you'll someday you'll get to be special too.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I hope you're wrong, and I hope nobody makes so many bad financial decisions that their credit viability is improved by closing their credit cards.

I couldn't ever hate on someone for a post on the internet even half-seriously, though I'm enjoying ur royal rumble lol. I know some about the car biz, in general, but I think you may know more about the appraisal process at CarMax. Most dealers will give you a trade allowance number, based on the assumption that somebody is there to buy a car. If the ACV of your car is 15k, it would be standard to start out by offering the customer a trade allowance of 13k, w the dealer pocketing 2k right there if you accept. But they may give you a trade allowance of 16k and "lose" 1k on the trade, in order to move old inventory, or bc they know they're going to croak you on the financing/warranty.

The reason CarMax has extra incentive to purchase cars off the street (even w the full knowledge that you're not buying a car), is bc as a used car superstore, they need inventory. They don't have a manufacturer supplying them w hundreds of new cars to sell so they have to be crafty to obtain (profitable) inventory.

But the other side of that coin is that the incoming inventory bought off the street has to be appraised low enough so they can make a profit. So they likely won't give you a big number for your trade. If someone brought me a CarMax appraisal figure (which is prob a profitable number for the dealer), I would hem and haw, tell the customer I have to check the updated sales records of their vehicle in the region over the last 90 days, go back into the box, talk to my buddies, then go back to the customer and say, "well it's a little much, but the owner is here and he's really breathing down our necks to step up and make some car deals, so we think we can do the deal at that number. Congratulations!" Put my hand out for them to shake and tell the salesperson to write it up.

If they can afford it and want the car and they've been treated w respect, most customers will be happy

Maybe. But in the experience of several friends who have gone through the process, what they were initially offered for trade-in at dealerships was about 75% of what Carmax was willing to pay them. Admittedly, there are a couple dozen possible interpretations for this, so I will not immediately conclude that Carmax gives the best value on trade-ins. But it's a big enough gap to have my attention.

@MacauBound - What type of dealership did you work at? Was it mostly higher end vehicles?

The reason I ask is because of this:

The types of cars my friends drive get trade-in values more in the range of $6k-8k.