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Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Winstar / QJ top pair facing action

03-10-2024 , 09:48 PM
The main lesson for me from this hand is that I need to do a better job of keeping mental notes. I had been at the table with all of the villains in this hand for about 2 and a half hours, so I should have had a better idea of their betting and calling standards by this point. Anyway,

3 limpers, SB completes, I'm BB with QJ and I check.

2.5bb, 5 players, flop is J86
SB checks. In an unraised pot I'm betting top pair all day. First limper raises, next two limpers cold-call, SB folds. I had seen the first limper BET a draw but I'd never seen him RAISE a draw. Honestly, even if I HAD seen him raise a draw once or twice I would probably play cautiously here. I see no reason to 3-bet here so I call.

6.5bb, 4 players, turn is 2
That card changes nothing. I check. He bets. 1 caller and I call.

9.5bb, 3 players, river is 9
I check, he bets, other limper folds, I call

This all seems pretty standard. QJo is a clear check in the BB. I'm clearly betting top pair in an unraised pot. I'm getting 12-to-1 to call the flop raise (and see no reason to 3-bet), 8.5 to 1 to call the turn bet and 10.5 to 1 to call the river bet.

Any decision anyone would play differently?
Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Quote
03-11-2024 , 12:11 AM
I play small amounts of LHE at this stakes, generally a flop raise on a board of this texture is either Jx dry or Jx with backdoor, every once in a while you will see someone open ended or with fd do this to try and get the free river card based on position. Even smaller % of times this is small set or two pair. This is a standard bet/call/call situation if you are going to play QJo consistently, then adjust to what you see at showdown. You want to see them turn over J7o
Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Quote
03-11-2024 , 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
The main lesson for me from this hand is that I need to do a better job of keeping mental notes. I had been at the table with all of the villains in this hand for about 2 and a half hours, so I should have had a better idea of their betting and calling standards by this point. Anyway,

3 limpers, SB completes, I'm BB with QJ and I check.

2.5bb, 5 players, flop is J86
SB checks. In an unraised pot I'm betting top pair all day. First limper raises, next two limpers cold-call, SB folds. I had seen the first limper BET a draw but I'd never seen him RAISE a draw. Honestly, even if I HAD seen him raise a draw once or twice I would probably play cautiously here. I see no reason to 3-bet here so I call.

6.5bb, 4 players, turn is 2
That card changes nothing. I check. He bets. 1 caller and I call.

9.5bb, 3 players, river is 9
I check, he bets, other limper folds, I call

This all seems pretty standard. QJo is a clear check in the BB. I'm clearly betting top pair in an unraised pot. I'm getting 12-to-1 to call the flop raise (and see no reason to 3-bet), 8.5 to 1 to call the turn bet and 10.5 to 1 to call the river bet.

Any decision anyone would play differently?
I usually raise pre and usually check with the intention of raising (and would b/3 if I did lead out), but in a typical 4/8 game where people don’t raise AJ/KJ consistently and don’t raise draws frequently, I think your line makes sense.
Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Quote
03-13-2024 , 01:08 AM
Welcome back.

I would take the same line as you here but also expect to be beat most of the time. Maybe 86 or a pocket pair higher than Jacks (my money's on Kings).

In recent years I've come to question whether these stakes are beatable. Unless you have a few players splashing around, the pots just aren't big enough in relation to the rake or drop + promo drop + tip. It can also be maddening when multiple players aren't raising with their premiums, thus making them harder to read, while other players (or sometimes the same players) are playing hands like T2o or J5o and getting lucky.

If you view it as a hobby and have fun playing, great. Just don't expect to win much in the long term.
Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Quote
03-15-2024 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agamblerthen
Welcome back.

I would take the same line as you here but also expect to be beat most of the time. Maybe 86 or a pocket pair higher than Jacks (my money's on Kings).

In recent years I've come to question whether these stakes are beatable. Unless you have a few players splashing around, the pots just aren't big enough in relation to the rake or drop + promo drop + tip. It can also be maddening when multiple players aren't raising with their premiums, thus making them harder to read, while other players (or sometimes the same players) are playing hands like T2o or J5o and getting lucky.

If you view it as a hobby and have fun playing, great. Just don't expect to win much in the long term.
Thank you for welcoming me back.

With regard to the game being beatable, I can't find the post, but one time a poster gave me this advice: Watch the rebuys. That's the best way to know whether or not the game is beatable. At a $4/$8 game where 5 to 7 people are seeing every flop you can safely assume that about $200 is coming off the table per hour (BTW if I'm not seeing 5 people to almost every flop I rack up). So what I'm HOPING to see is at least 3 rebuys for racks per hour. That means on AVERAGE there's $100/hr for the 9 players to win, or about $11/hr. I expect to be an above-average winner in that game, so 2BB/hr is not completely out of the question. Even if I'm only seeing two rebuys for racks per hour, that means on AVERAGE a player is going to break even, so in the long run, it's not completely out of the question for me to expect to turn a profit.

In the specific game I play on Saturdays, very rarely am I in a situation where we're not seeing 5 people to almost every flop and getting multiple rebuys for racks every hour.

With all of that said, poker is indeed just an enjoyable hobby for me, so as long as I'm not hemorrhaging (I had to use the spell checker on that word) money and the other players at the table are fun to sit down with, I'm good.
Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Quote
03-25-2024 , 04:07 AM
Without a better read, I don't think that we can make a super double top secret river fold here. Our odds are just too good.
Winstar / QJ top pair facing action Quote

      
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