Live 8/16 half kill game. I am hungry and just ordered steak and eggs for breakfast. BOC imo.

4 players limp and I complete the small blind with 7 5. BB knuckles it and off we go.

6 ish small bets, 6 handed

A 8 5

I check, the big blind checks, EP player checks, MP bets, CO calls, button calls, I call, BB calls, EP folds.


5+ big bets, 5 handed

5

I check, BB checks, MP bets, CO now raises, button folds, action on me and BB is telegraphing a fold.

Read on CO is that I played 60 minutes of 20/40 with her the day before and she seemed tightish preflop and was not spazzy/aggro post flop. That actually probably helps here because it would limit the number of 5X hands in her range. I don't know MP from Adam, although he hasn't done anything to draw my attention in the last 10 minutes. How we rolling? Does anybody just donk the turn into the world?

turn check-raise seems like a good plan, most people with an ace are still going to be betting. as played, check-3! seems to turn your hand faceup and will often blow MP off his hand. i like calling and plan on bet-calling most rivers.

Oh and another thing...given that my read on Villain is that she is reasonable sane, I feel like the fact that I have a 7 kicker is very helpful, as likely cards to be paired with a 5 include 7,6,4 and 3. However, I'm probably not gonna have a kicker at show down....

interesting spot - i'm definitely not ready to fold yet and i don't really hate 3betting but i kind of like coldcalling here as it disguises our hand a bit more and on a lot of rivers it keeps our options open more

I'd bite the bullet and cold call the turn and try to get some overlay from what looks like an ace from MP. I agree with your assessment that it's unlikely you'll have a kicker at showdown (you don't on the turn!). All the action up to this point is standard imho.

I like calling the turn here and donking a lot of rivers. I'm more prone to betting the river if it's a Q or something, because then our kicker issue is less of an issue against this TAG.

And no BOC is complete w/o bacon, IMO.

Seems like calling the turn is the best option, and i agree. Good disguise and you also have position so if she checks river you valuebet and if she bet river you got a new desicion, call or raise.

But as played, call turn.

as long as they brought hashbrowns or grits and biscuits, too. Red-eye gravy is a bonus; but, I reckon ya just got live around here to get that.

Bonus semi-hijack question: Without having to Google it, who knows how to make real red-eye gravy?

(C'mon James, do us good ol' boys proud, now.)

I actually like the turn donk. After all, everybody "expects" the c/r with the turned trips.

I like donking this turn, I also like cold calling as played.

So for those whose sarcasm meters were turned off or missed the positioning of the players....on the river I act first (as is customary for the small blind on the later streets), and my hand is a naked 5...my kicker is already counterfitted. Assuming Villains range starts at trip fives, I cannot win more than half the pot unless I spike a 7.

jesse, i'm pretty sure everyone realizes you have currently have trip fives with a, 8, kickers

why are we assuming villain's range starts at trip fives? i fear the creep of results orientation...

If the CO is a sane player, the only hand that beats you in her range should be A5s, a slow played 88 or maybe something like K5s or Q5s. If she has something like 65 or 54, you are chopping.

Why try to blow MP out of the hand by 3-betting here? Keep him in and maybe he will call a bet on the river too, since a large percentage of the time you are losing or chopping this pot, I would want to keep MP in.

This is closer to a fold than a 3-bet. I'm pretty sure villain's range is trips+.

I'd probably just call down from here on out and be hating life.

if you call the turn you'll probably look like you are drawing to a flush or maaaybe a straight. if you 3bet the turn you are flipping your cards face up in a way, and overrepping your hand in the process.

not really familiar with the term red-eye gravy. sorry. i do likes me sum biskits and gravies tho.

btw, i think leading the turn is a fine idea. so is c/r, too.

Are kickers that important when you have the nuts?

Do people who play live 8/16 really see players raise this turn with less than trip 5s?

In the Bellagio game, used to be all the time. Mountains of $1 chips = insanity. $2 chips, idk.

I would not be shocked to see someone raise the turn with AQ+ or A8.*

*not an endorsement of this line.

I suppose she could be raising with A8. If she had AK-AT I would have expect she would have raised preflop or on the flop rather than waited for the turn to raise, but it is not impossible.

Tell me it ain't so! Good ol' Arkansas boy like yurself?

Cook up some real county ham in the cast iron skillet. Remove said ham to serve with the eggs and biscuits. Ever so slowly, stir in some coffe with those ham drippin's 'til ya see those little puddles of grease form on the top. Heat 'til it just starts to bubble. Make sure all the other breakfast fixin's is ready before you put that redeye gravy in a shallow dish. Serve it all up at once so that everybody can dip their biscuit in that gravy.

Hot-o-mater. Makes me wanna smack my grandma jus' thinkin' 'bout it.

I resemble that comment.

Reckon you should just put me in the results-oriented camp, too.

I would actually argue that seeing AK-AT here is practically impossible. Players who don't raise those hands preflop don't do so to be tricky. They do so because they are passive and bad. These same players do not raise the turn with a pair of aces when the board pairs.

On the turn I pegged her range as:

AA - 3 combos and discounted substantially
88 - 3 combos and completely valid
A8 - 4 combos and probably should be discounted a bit
58s - 1 combo (right?) and should be discounted
53s 54s, 56s, 57s, 5Qs, 5Ks, 5As - Lots and lots of combos.

Do I have enough equity against this range to put 3 bets into what's going to be a 14ish bet pot at show down?

I'm confused as to why people seem certain that MP's range starts at trips+. At my regular live 8/16 game I'll see this move all the time from average players who turned a flush draw. 76 in spades is a strong possibility even if she's a reasonable player. A8 is in there, as is a misplayed AJ-AK.

Any reads on this player?

All the read I have is in the OP...that is, not much, although she wasn't aggressive or "too loose" at 20/40. By "too loose" I mean she did fold more preflop than she played, but probably not by a 2:1 margin.

Raising a draw on this turn is lol bad...five handed with an Ace on board? You want to shut out the other 3 players? She'd have to be a bloomin' idiot. Now you're right, I have no evidence she's not, so....