Quote:
Originally Posted by MaterialConditions
I'm wondering why I shouldn't call T7s, especially if the pot is on the large end and if the raiser is weak? Also wondering if it's worth bothering with 43s anymore, period. I'll pause there for now.
+1 on the welcome to the forum.
I would point out a small artifact of the ranges you picked, namely you minimized domination of T7s while oddly maximized domination of 43s. You picked the villain PP hands such that the T was a live overcard, you included a bunch of Tx with kickers worse than T, and the only dominating A you put in the villain's ranges was A7. At the same time, you picked all the villain hand ranges down to something-2.
The impact of this is that you have perfectly sculpted out your middle card hand as being free of domination issues that it normally faces. Let's look at the Qx range you picked of Q9o-Q2o. Normally, QT would be a favorite limping hand of bad live villains while Q4 and Q3 would be played by only the worst. I think you've reversed this, I assume by thinking they'd open QJo and QTo? Your general villain's ranges are decapitated much more than I'd expect from loose/passive players, and some of your results are due to the exact hands you excluded.
Let's say I give UTG limper a 50% range dropping a 2% PFR, give that range to UTG+1, give the next couple of guys 70% ranges with 4% PFR, and then give everyone else 95% ranges with 4% PFR. A table full of horrible players who have poorish ranges and who only raise a little (and haven't).
*******Equity*****Win*****Tie
UTG*****9.47%***8.60%***0.86%*{ TT-33, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
UTG+1***9.31%***8.46%***0.85%*{ TT-33, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
UTG+2***8.62%***7.82%***0.80%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q3o+, J5o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
MP1*****8.50%***7.61%***0.89%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q3o+, J5o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
MP2*****8.82%***7.97%***0.85%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q3o+, J5o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
MP3*****8.50%***7.67%***0.83%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 52o+, 43o }
CO******8.47%***7.63%***0.84%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 52o+, 43o }
BU******8.21%***7.41%***0.80%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 52o+, 43o }
SB*****19.35%**18.89%***0.46%*{ TT+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
BB*****
10.74%***9.71%***1.03%*{ T7s }
*******Equity*****Win*****Tie
UTG*****9.56%***8.69%***0.87%*{ TT-33, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
UTG+1***9.10%***8.28%***0.82%*{ TT-33, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
UTG+2***8.80%***7.98%***0.82%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q3o+, J5o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
MP1*****8.87%***7.99%***0.88%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q3o+, J5o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
MP2*****8.87%***7.96%***0.91%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q3o+, J5o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
MP3*****8.05%***7.13%***0.93%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 52o+, 43o }
CO******8.11%***7.19%***0.91%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 52o+, 43o }
BU******8.03%***7.18%***0.85%*{ 88-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 52o+, 43o }
SB*****19.11%**18.63%***0.49%*{ TT+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
BB*****
11.51%**10.84%***0.67%*{ 43s }
Notice the reversal of fortune? As I fix up the ranges for the villains to be slightly tighter, 43s will continue to improve relative to T7s -- that's because being middle cards the T & 7 hit limpers ranges harder and are more likely to be dominated.
So, does it matter? No. Which leads to your point about
Quote:
given most newer players to SSHE or beginning chart junkies will call only the latter
Been a long time since I used a beginner's chart. The lowest SC hands have their own problems. If there are two flushes, 43s is always the worst one. They hit the ignorant ends of straights. Their two pair get counterfeit. Once we've moved into fun hands, T7s seems a fine one in the mix. The two gap hurts its str8 potential, but whatever. Once we're playing suited 3 gaps, we're expecting stuff to go wrong at times.
At some point you're going to go from following a chart and avoiding trouble spots and work to understanding situational hand value and how the game works around you. There are just times where you want to be in the pot -- three bad players are in, I have good control, they place face up, and my position is good. There are other spots where a slightly better hand will want to fold -- the worst players have folded, the best players are in, I'm facing tenacious/showdown-bound villains, and I'm at huge risk to have an in position player raise me. That will matter more than fine points about if T7s is or isn't slightly better than 43s.