Continuing the discussion...

What should you be paying attention too?
- What are they willing to bet with? Will they lead with a flush or str8 draw?
- Are they capable of making good folds? (if so, these are the people we will look to bluff)
- Do they bluff?
- Are they playing more hands in position?



If you pay attention to the game these questions are usually pretty easy to answer for most people at the table. Once you have this info you will have a much better idea of what your opponents are holding, for some you will know EXACTLY what they are holdin.

While I don't disagree, if you're in a game where 5 to 7 people are seeing every flop, the mathematics tend to almost completely overwhelm reads.

An example: You're in the BB with QTs. 4 limpers, the button raises, SB folds, you and all the limpers call (Some might say 3-bet with QTs but I'm not a big fan of bloating the pot with an easily-dominated hand out of position).

The flop comes KT5r with one of your suit. It's checked around to the button who bets.

I'm NEVER just calling here. Raise or fold. I want to fold out naked aces and naked jacks and I want to overcharge gutshots.

I would have to have a rock-solid read that the button ONLY does this with KK to even CONSIDER folding, and that type of read is basically next to impossible to have.



I had a hand recently where I raised pre and got 3 callers, bet the flop and got 2, bet the turn and got 1, bet the river and got 0. It was a hand where I couldn't have missed the flop any worse if the dealer had turned around and thrown the cards backwards. With 7.5 big bets in the pot, there only has to be, what, about a 15% chance he folds for the bet to be correct? Even for the stationiest villains in the world it's next to impossible to be less than 15% sure he'll fold. And if he does call, if anyone at the table is paying attention they'll SEE that you don't always have a strong hand when you bet the river and call you down when you DO more lightly.

Actually, with some of the people at these tables it's not that IMPOSSIBLE to have that kinda read and hence the importance of paying attention. But I'd like to address the idea that in this situation you raise or fold. You call here all day in a loose 4/8 game. The concept of $4 vs $8. You face these people with two bets and most if not all but button will fold....why would you want that? Now ur going to turn outta position against 1 person who has shown interest in pot, granted he could be trying to buy a free card, but you just chased all the money out of the pot. I'm not afraid of the naked aces or jacks or the gut shots...this hand has potential to become a monster on the turn...Also, say you raise, chase everyone out of pot, then button reraises..do you cap? Do you call down unimproved? Just seems to me like your making more by just calling and inviting bad players to come along!

**** side note **** I have found some old Izmet Fekali articles I had printed out years ago and posted a thread letting anyone interested know, but I guess it was deleted. Am I breaking policy or something? Just curious why the thread was deleted?

I had a hand recently where I raised pre and got 3 callers, bet the flop and got 2, bet the turn and got 1, bet the river and got 0. It was a hand where I couldn't have missed the flop any worse if the dealer had turned around and thrown the cards backwards. With 7.5 big bets in the pot, there only has to be, what, about a 15% chance he folds for the bet to be correct? Even for the stationiest villains in the world it's next to impossible to be less than 15% sure he'll fold. And if he does call, if anyone at the table is paying attention they'll SEE that you don't always have a strong hand when you bet the river and call you down when you DO more lightly.[/QUOTE]


Ahh yes, Raise AK, miss flop, miss turn, miss river, and bet all 3 streets. This works. Puts a lot of pressure on people, looks like an over pair to board. With 3 callers...YES..im 3 barreling all day. But with more callers than that I'm checking back flop. Also if any of those three people are true stations (then once again im checkin flop)...I was playing last weekend and got into a pot with an Asian lady about my age 50ish...I check raised the flop and lead all three streets......she called me down with bottom pair....and for a sec I thought ......HOW THE HELL DID SHE SOUL READ ME LIKE THAT???? Couple hands later she called another person on river with K high, on a very wet board...the guy had a str8! lmao...I felt better after that. Cant bluff some people...