Looks like the change at Boston Encore has taken root for the time being.
4/8 holdem running. Next level offered is 20/40. For some reason, nobody was playing the 8/16.

Although I made up my mind not to bother with the 3/6 myself anymore, I don't understand why they decided not to run it anymore. There were a enough people who started to be regs at that game. Weekends had at least 3 tables running. Oh wet, I guess this is wrong forum for this discussion.

I'm only registered on Bovada poker, and they don't offer limit.
Limit was actually my first game when I started playing online.
And I made some money at it! Does it mean my competitors were so bad!?
Do they still run limit outside the us, poker stars?

The online LHE ship has sailed, at least at the lower limits. Even 10, 15 years ago 3/6 online was hard to beat. Mostly HU pots with players who had read all the books.

I know the variance can be frustrating, but the 4/8 at Foxwoods is pretty good for a rec player who knows what he/she is doing. Not beatable for a living, obviously, but definitely a revenue positive hobby. Unfortunately it tends to only go on weekends, so limit players who can't do 20/40 get stuck in 2/4.

Yeah, thanks. The games available are limited, I know.I didn't have the brains back then to take advantage. I was a modest winner at micro art but the moved on to nl. Too early I think.

Made a surprising discovery. Bovada offers fixed limit after all.
Just got home from work and checking not out. 6 max. Hmm.

I've played at Foxwoods , maybe 4 5 years ago. But only 2/4

I play Bovada 6Max everyday. Be prepared for a lot of heads-up play, as there will rarely be enough players to fill the table.

The online equivalent of live $3/$6 is $0.25/$0.50, in my opinion.

The difficulty of $1/$2 varies widely, and you can end up HU against some very good players. It's very hard to find a full ring... Sometimes I have luck late at night, like 10:00-12:00 EST.

I've played $3/$6 at MGM Springfield a few times this summer, and the $1/$2 games online are usually tougher than the $3/$6 games at the MGM, where everyone limps in pre, people hardly ever raise, and most hold on through turn and river with any piece of anything.

6 Max LHE online at levels 1/2 and higher you face really skilled players. many tougher than you'll find at 20/40 live.

6 max LHE requires a very agro approach (here's where stoxtrade's book comes in) that is a much different approach than what works at 3/6 or 4/8 live.

I keep saying to myself to post less, to not post every random poker thought that comes to mind. Oh well. Text degen here.

Does GTO apply to limit? Isn't GTO actually more applicable to limit?
Is this a legit question? If so, should we open up a new thread on this subject?

At nosebleed levels, sure. At low-limit live play trying to play GTO will probably cost you money.

Play 4/8 and after a couple of hours most of your opponents are open books. Doesn't mean they won't draw out on you, but you don't need to play GTO to win.

GTO is a perfectly balanced strategy. In rock-paper-scissors, a GTO strategy is to randomly select 1/3 of each option.

If 3/6 or 4/8 players were playing rock-paper-scissors, they would throw paper 90% of the time and rock the other 10%. You won’t lose if you play a balanced GTO strategy against that (you will break even), but you will win a lot more if you play exploitively by always throwing scissors.

I played $4/$8 at the Encore today for the first time. It’s a nice card room, and the drink service was excellent.

At the table, there were a few good players - one guy in particular was a sharp LAG - and some pretty bad ones.

I started down, but ended up +$30 in 3.5 hours, thanks in large part to a pot in which I tried to isolate said LAG by 3-betting, ended up in a six-way 4-bet pot, got 25-1 for a gut shot on the flop, and the gut shot hit on the turn. Some wild pots. The game was better than the $3/$6 game at MGM Springfield, where raising is taboo or something.

Good $1/$2 online players seem better than these $4/$8 players.

This (though I do think NL players don’t 3 bet nearly enough, especially against the large sizes people use live which makes calling not very lucrative at all).

Example: 20% opener raises. Folds to us and we have KQcc. A lot of weaker players cold call here, rationalizing that they have a decent hand and position. However, the two random rags in the bb’s hand has 25% equity on average. Now he gets to realize it and make our life difficult.

OTOH by three betting, we add that dead $ and now our villain can’t as aggressively bet against us.


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I think you're focusing on the wrong types of preflop hands. The more multi-way (and the bigger the pots get), the more you actually need to play looser with cards that can make big hands. Suited connectors, small pairs, suited Aces become very valuable in 5/6-way 2-bet pots and you should be cold-calling liberally preflop with these types of hands.

You're not trying to make one pair and showdown vs. 4 players. You're trying to make sets, straights, flushes -- hands that are more likely to win big pots against many players.

Going back a bit, I'm reading Stoxtrade's book.

I'm with Reaper - read the book. Many, many of the principles are applicable to situations I see online short-handed every day. I have learned quite a bit. There are tables of outcomes for each hand in each position specifically for mid-stakes players.

Standard betting lines are their utilities are examined very informatively.

My big takeaway thus far - for me - is that I need to consciously identify whether a flop is coordinated or not - needs to be an explicit part of the thought process every time. But there's tons of stuff there.

Big value-added. Definitely recommend.

I've been reading all the posts. Great stuff.
Yeah, I'll be definitely picking up that book eventually.
But I'm still on Miller's small stakes holdem. I don't feel that I learnt all the concepts thoroughly enough yet.

I have a brag and a beat,

Brag:Purchased and am currently reading Small stakes holdem
Beat: found The same book in my little library

Now I have two copies, yahy!
Apparently started reading it some years ago and put it away and never took it out again. Indicative of my study habits

That's quite a beat. I have hundreds of books but the only replication has come from some classic lit when my wife and I merged our libraries.

Yes, moving is a giant pain for us.

Anyways, SSHE is the greatest value added. Just be critical of the hand protection stuff when you read it. Taking those concepts too far just ends in spew imo.

Play 4/8 and after a couple of hours most of your opponents are open books. Doesn't mean they won't draw out on you, but you don't need to play GTO to win.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY! always amazes me at the "rake is to large" crowd. You have half the table playing so bad that, like he said, they might as well turn their cards face up and you can't win? You should be exploiting these people! And just FYI playing like a nit isn't the answer either.

Sorry my friend but honestly there is no easy answer here. The game is complicated that's why some of us love it. Everything DEPENDS! How many people in pot, WHO are they, whats the flop texture, does anyone have tells, etc etc etc. Honestly at 4/8 its the people that are important. I can see the pro/fish crew is still giving questionable advice lmao...

I may be getting ahead of myself a bit, but I agree that anyone who applies themselves to this game can eventually beat it. At least I think that's what all the advice boils down to.
The biggest problem with limit, at least where I am, is there isn't a big enough player pool.

From what I hear LA is the only place that has a healthy limit scene anymore.

I'm not arguing against you, but I heard somewhere on this forum, Arizona has good limit games. Certain casinos in Vegas, like the Orleans also seem to run plenty of limit games regularly.
Yeah, I was watching a little of the 20/40 game at the bike on YouTube.
Of course, it's all a drop in the bucket, so to speak.
And I'm not moving to any of these places anytime soon.

As a side note, they do seem to be running 2 4/8 tables now on a daily basis at the Boston Encore. Which is encouraging.

I think it’s easy to discount the rake because the players do tend to play poorly, but you have to remember that every hour 200-250 leaves the table and every pot you’re playing down .75 BB. It’s hard to survive in a small game with that much coming off the table, especially on a limp-fest table with shortstackers.

/\
Hey, we are supposed to be encouraging new people to the game!
I realize all that. I wouldn't ever play anything lower than 4/8 again either. Although I guess 4/8 is about the same as 2/4 or 3/6.
It's only recreational for me anyways. It's a challenge and a way to enjoy a game I love on a limited budget. No one can earnestly recommend anyone who's looking to be a pro, to play any form of Hold'em under 20/40.
Am I right?

To be perfectly honest, if my current budget allowed, I'd be playing 1/3 nl.
But, limit is usually a more relaxed and fun atmosphere.
That's a plus for a rec like me.

Up to the point where the new player THINKS he can actually play poker as a career. Then talking them off the ledge is also an important message that needs to be said from the experienced among us.

But to encourage from a social or disposable_income angle...sure.

4/8 is fun but you should also understand what you’re getting into. It is possible to do everything right and still drop serious coin in that game, especially with kill pots and maniac opponents.

I've won big in limit sessions(2/4, 200-300), and I've lost big in limit sessions(2/4, 200-300). As I stated before, I'm not a complete beginner to the game. Just being realistic and knowing I have to brush up on my knowledge and trying to be as good as can be after a few years of being away from the game. But thanks.

As far as new player's and introducing them to the game.
We have an ethical obligation not to mislead anyone, sure.
But at the end of the day, everyone has to come to their own conclusions and make their own decisions. Unless they're some kind of degen. Then there's no helping them!