YEA YEA We been thru this argument as well, lmao..these topics just kinda keep reappearing LMAO! YES! $200/hr maybe leaving the table, but how much NEW MONEY is being infused with people rebuying and new players sitting down constantly! If you can't beat ur local 4/8 game don't blame it on the donks or the rake...look in the mirror and reevaluate!

I mean beating a 4/8 game is possible, but your win rate is hemorrhaged by the massive amount of rake coming off the table. The complete donks are what make it at all possible to beat, obviously.

When ur at a table thats regularly going 5-6 to flop for 2 bets, the rake isn't that crushing. Not to mention kill pots (even if they are 1/2 kill).

If a player can beat 4/8 for $8/hr despite the exorbitant rake, they are better off playing 15/30 or 20/40 where they are still likely to have an edge and have a much better hourly.



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I think of it in terms of money on the table. Say you play a six hour session, and you see 35 hands an hour that see a flop and go full rake. That is approximately 200 dollars that comes off the table in an hour, 1200 coming off the table within that timespan. Even if you could beat that game, your time is better spent elsewhere, like 8/16. You could easily see a single person take out 1200 dollars, and most players are terrible.

[QUOTE=Arbitrage;55505742]If a player can beat 4/8 for $8/hr despite the exorbitant rake, they are better off playing 15/30 or 20/40 where they are still likely to have an edge and have a much better hourly.



LMAO!!!! Even if they are not rolled up for those limits??? For all of you play higher play higher folks...question. Bill gates, assuming he is a complete fish at poker wants to play you a heads up match.. 100k / 200k blinds. do you play? (assuming no staking, etc, its all ur own money)..yea ur better then him and you both know it but if he catches a couple of hands ur BROKE! do you play?

So true aprox 200/hr goes off table..however..6 players for 8 each over same 35 hands...the money in pot just preflop with no other betting is 1,680/hr. to take it further yes approx 1200 comes off in a six hour session...but 10,080.00 goes in AND THATS JUST PREFLOP!

Yet you are only looking at gross numbers and not looking at averages. The best players shoot for 2BB an hour. I assume some are absolutely crushing it for more, but lets focus on that group. If they win two pots an hour, that’s one BB that comes out of their winrate. Comparatively, at 20/40 that same rake is roughly 30-40% of a BB. At 4/8 it’s 1.5 BB.

LOL..i was workin with the numbers you put forward? And yes those are convenient assumptions...the tried and true..1BB/hr. Just seems low to me..at least for 4/8...play 6hours and only win 48 on average????

It’s not like you can bluff in these games. You have to make hands and win at showdown, and win big when you do have it. You’re also up against all the other players, who are also waking up with hands or even just chasing their garbage trying to get lucky. There’s a chance to win big on every hand but there is also a chance to lose big when you’re constantly betting hard and in the mix.

Playing like a nit can work, but you’re also trading value. Not to mention one pair goes down in value in multiway pots (but still wins a good amount of pots in the long run).

You most certainly can bluff in these games, spots dont come up as much as in NL, but they still come up. Playing like a NIT isn't answer either. Need to understand the fundamentals and then apply those concepts. 4/8 more than other is an exploitative game because people play so bad. Avoid HU and 3 handed pots when you can, need to know which hands play well multiway and push them when appropriate. Finally need to be able to deal with the badbeats!

[QUOTE=checkraisdraw;55518825]It’s not like you can bluff in these games.

You need to look for right kind of person to bluff first off. He or She will prob be familiar with this site..they are trying to play.."correctly?" You know all the ABC stuff, they are pretty easy to spot since most people are playing badly. The type of player that will value bet top pair on river on scary board and then fold to a raise. Once you've identified potential victims..just wait for right spot. Here are a couple:

four of a suit on board by river..checks around to victim who bets...if no one else shows interest...RAISE! doesn't matter what you have. Really strong if they dont have ace, they will put you on it and fold.

Victim raises board comes A53..4 on turn victim bets you call, river brings a 6..victim bets...doesn't matter what you have raise.

[QUOTE=Dead.money.is.back;55520770]You most certainly can bluff in these games,

Thing is most of the people trying to play correctly, studying, looking to move up, they look down on 4/8 players...and they prob should lol...but you can use that arrogance against them.....they figure a 4/8 player isn't good enough to realize they have a weak made hand like top pair and raise them with air. Also stay on look out for house players! they are a gold mines! They're sluming playin because they have too and LAST thing they want to do is lose money playin 4/8. Not all are the same some actually play a tough game when they play 4/8 but most are just playin on auto pilot.

Hi guys, haven't logged onto 2+2 in over 4 years. It's nice to start fresh after posting so much

OP, I would consider another angle to this: why are you playing 4/8 at a B&M? The rake makes it almost unbeatable long term, the play is incredible boring and straight forward and there are almost no interesting situations to challenge you

Yes, understanding how to adjust to try to break even will make you a better player by understanding where to adjust and why you are adjusting, but the reality of it is that you'll have to relearn so much even one or two levels higher that it's a complete waste of time for your development as a player.

Create an online account and play 25/50c or 50c/1, skip one live session saving double the money to play every other time 8/16. Play HU online for 5c/10c.

Always enter the pot raising or 3 betting, get yourself in uncomfortable spots, challenge yourself to understand the game, it's counter productive measuring how well you are playing poker or understand the game by not losing too much at 4/8

And for christ's sake bet JJ on the turn and check the river, are you drawing? are you calling a bet on the river? why not just bet the turn and get paid by KT instead of paying the guy with the A on the river? You are making the baby Jesus cry.

Live poker up to 8/16 and many 20/40 games in a nutshell are raise, bet, bet, decide

Stay safe everyone!

+1

Tldr thread but OP and anyone else playing below 6/12 live LHE, probably better to play NL and multi table via online real $ LHE, Chinese, etc on phone (if allowed).

Derailing thread but anyone should read Intelligent Poker Player by Phillip Newall prior to considering quitting and switching from Limit Holdem

PS: Confident theoried by Phillip Newall is applicable in long run as poker player regardless of how loose passive players are at certain stakes and/or tables.