Hello, to whoever reads this. I am looking for a poker buddy who plays FLE 2c/4c game on pokerstars.

I want to be open, honest and genuine, which can't exist on the tables.

I read a book called Hold'em Poker by David Sklansky that a friend gave me.

On page 19 he gives a list of the hand groups that should be played, 1 thru 8 and then later in the book he advises what hands groups to play in what position (roughly) for the full ring, 9 or ten players.

I have just completed 2K hands and i am $2.86 (71 buy-ins) down. My VPIP is 24 % and my PFR is 12%.

I seem to be doing everything by the book, but last night, the wheels came off the wagon. Everything i seemed to do was beaten, no matter what was happening. i was on a table where everyone had a VPIP above 30% and although my VPIP was below 24% i was being hammered, right left and centre.

I am just looking for help and support. I am not prepared to pay any money for help. i am just looking to talk, maybe we can help each other, i don't know.

i went back to the person who lent me the book and he said "I don't know anything about FLHE, but you need to play about 20K hands in order to know whether you are winning or not. 2K simply isn't enough." But by 20K i could easily be $30 in the hole as a minimum. Even then, who is to say, what is right or what is wrong?

I would like to have a hand chart for the 6 max games, but i don't know how to convert the full ring hand charts into 6-max hand charts.

Luving the game though.

Let me know your thoughts.

That book is very outdated. In the current online 6 max climate, the winners are playing ~30% preflop and they're coming in for a raise with that whole range if nobody else has entered the pot. If there's a limp, they're attempting to isolate quite wide. Depending on their position, they may be isolating with up to 50% of hands. The game is also much more showdown bound than the games that book was designed to beat up.

That's great. It's a fun game. The relationship between the fixed bets and the size of the blinds makes for lots of wide ranges and the limited number of options makes the game play pretty fast.

I wouldn't worry about winrate yet. You're probably already much better than you were during your first 500 hands, and if you study away from the game then you'll be in a position to keep getting better for years.

Let me elaborate further.

I used to play on pokerstars many years before. I used to win between $18 to $24 a month ($35 was a maximum) on the FLHE 2c/4c game. But that was a couple of years ago. Now, it seems the tables have 'tighten-up' a lot and most tables seem to be less than 30% VPIP, whereas they used to be 60% or better.

Also, i noticed, whereas you used to be able to find tables throughout the night at this limit, now sometimes there is only a table full of rocks and on a couple of times there is only one open table. Where has EVERYONE gone???

The one thing i have noticed and it is with some concern, is that the 'tightening-up' of the tables.at this limit.

So the question becomes of one, whether it is good too be a rock, or not. I never liked being a rock, i never ever thought it was good for game play or the way to win.

I know rocks are beatable, as we all are, but to be honest, how likely are you to beat a rock? Not very much really.

I hav elso noticed something else, 'the fish' aren't 'pot committing' as much as they used to. Whereas it used to be, if you raised, they would still call, but now they are 'shallow dipping'. They call, but if you raise, most throw the hand away, which means, you aren't making the money on the hands you used to, which leads me back to the first question, maybe, with the tightening tables, it is better to be more 'rocky' and wait for those opportunities to come to you.

What do you reckon? Are you winning? How are you finding the game?

I have to be honest. I would love to learn more about the game (FLHE), but, i am someone who needs to follow a recipe, like a cook. Its not that i can't think for myself, or adapt and change, but i need a fix or starting point of reference. I know there has to be a 6 limit chart out there. With time, i may be able to figure it out for myself.

Look at it this way. Supposing you are following the rules in the book for full ring (FR). What happens if one play drops out? What are the rules for 9 ring? What happens if another play drops out, so now its 8 ring? Now what?

For 9 players, it would be easy to say "You know what? It doesn't really matter, play group 7 & 8 together in seat 9" And maybe, that really would be good advice, after all, its only one person less, it doesn't really make that much difference, and it really doesn't, i agree. But what happens when its 8? Or 7? What you gonna do now??

Even at 8, you can really see, you have a problem and those 'hand groups' should be re-shuffled, but how?

If anyone has any ideas, please, lets talk

I haven't played on Stars since they banned USA players.

If they're limping in and folding to your raise, then you're making more money than you would if they had called you preflop, perhaps with the exceptions of QQ+, AKs. I'd raise these limp folders very wide.

The problem is, you are up against many players, maybe 6 players limp in and you raise, but not everyone folds. There is one or two steely minded players left behind and these are usually the ones that take the money, no matter what. Sometimes its me, but i say, i have KQs and they have A5 and you know what? They get that ace. Not necessarily the same person. Next hand you have TT, they have K3 and they pair that K on the flop. Not only once, but time and time and time again. You have 9s, they have J7 and they pair that J. If it isn't one person, its another and anoter and another that beats you. you have AK, that J3 and they get two threes on the flop and you get you A or your K and even if you call it down, they get you again and again and again, like a stuck record. You should have seen what happened last night. Like a stuck record. My VPIP was less that 20%, it didn't make any difference what i got, they were betting on the flop and if i called them down then they always seemed to have one better. I means always, it was absolutely ridiculous. How could they be so lucky and so often. 8 players and all with VPIP above 30% and i could only lose. It just didn't make sense.

The problem i would say again is this..... you are playing up against 6 players in the hand. Remember....6, they will all play Ax, Kx, Qx or Jx, so it doesn't matter what falls, if its one of them and you have anything less, say TT, 'go on, call us down' everyone folds except the person who managed to pair-up. What you going to do now, again and again and again? I would claim, that i start with the best hand preflop only to see it beaten so many times, by someone playing one of these other hands. How can I combat this?

I can tell you last night, was an all time low, i felt like crying. As an adult that is really stupid, i know, but i lost so much and so often i was beaten, it made me really doubt myself. It all used to be so easy, but now it is really, stupidly tough, even on this, the beginner tables. A lot of people are treating the 2c/4c tables, like every cent is gold dust. Have a look at the tables and see the ridiculous low VPIPs for yourself. I saw an 18% VPIP table last night, what is this NL????? Totally absurd, you are never going to beat the table, when they play like this, because you are always going to be behind them.

Are there any new full ring hand charts?

I am really really sorry, they banned US players from playing pokerstars? Do you know why? I really do hope, that eventually this ban will be lifted or an arrangement can be come to.

There is a new management at Pokerstars. I know the US goverment isn't keen to talk to PS because of problems from the past, but i hope soon, something may change. I am 100% confident, the new management, would co-operate fully with whatever the US govenment wanted. And NO! i don't work for PS.

As a good starting point I would suggest to look at starting hands suggested in SSHE by Miller and Sklansky, but you should really use it as a starting point. And afterwards try to understand why these hands are suggested, and adjust them according to opponents you face. Altogether I found this book very helpful for understanding basic concepts.

Sent from my PLK-L01 using 2+2 Forums

I have always said the best part of that book in the chapters on starting hands was not the charts but the portion of the chapters that explained the groups of different types of starting hands and why they were good in certain situations and not so good in others. You understand that and you can adjust your starting hands easier to the table conditions.

Doc

In evening i can point out 5-6 tables at 0.02/0.04 that as tough as any 2/4. And i'm serious
It's just one evening.
Make notes. Some tight guys never bet river without TP (maybe second pair top kicker if you check). They copy each other like monkies.

Check out this.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=25
I'm curious what's your nickname on PS?