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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 05-09-2020, 01:05 PM   #1
ninefingershuffle
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Screwplay

8/16

UTG opens and the next three players in line call, folds to me and I call with 66 in the big blind.

Flop is 6d4d4h.* I notice that this is a better than average flop for my hand and check,*UTG bets, three calls, I c/r and all call.

Turn is Ad making my heart very happy.* Can I get sexy here or do I need to bet?
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Old 05-09-2020, 07:52 PM   #2
CactusCub
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Re: Screwplay

This decision is very dependent on the table dynamics: crazy action with wtf I have a pair I raise thinking, or A on board danger i check I have a diamond.

But in general 5 way action should be a BET, right? We may even get raised here multiway
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:54 AM   #3
checkraisdraw
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Re: Screwplay

I would b/3b here all day assuming someone is slowplaying a 4 because of course 8/16 players love to do that.
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Old 05-10-2020, 12:15 PM   #4
solring
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Re: Screwplay

...and, just because I'm results oriented, what happened?
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:41 PM   #5
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Re: Screwplay

Trivially easy bet almost regardless of table conditions. The pot is already gigantic, nobody's folding any piece of the board. I'd expect multiple callers on both streets.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:19 AM   #6
Munga30
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Re: Screwplay

It's good to think about it but it doesn't matter too much in this hand. yes the A should hit someone given the UTG open and ccers. but the flush getting there makes it tougher for those that don't also have the Kd or Qd in their hands to bet. Plus you're the guy who should have 4x/diamonds the most and people get mubsy, etc. Feels like a wash.
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:27 PM   #7
tw2238
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Re: Screwplay

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...cement-355397/
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:32 PM   #8
Montrealcorp
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Re: Screwplay

Seem to me you were on a table with lot of calling station .
Vs them there isn’t much else to do than just bet and get paid of by a lot of hands by a lot of players .
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:56 PM   #9
ninefingershuffle
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Re: Screwplay

Yeah, I bet and got called in two spots on the turn and then they folded river.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:49 PM   #10
asmitty
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Re: Screwplay

I'd bet this card. If the river is a fourth diamond I would certainly c/r.
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Old 05-16-2020, 07:30 PM   #11
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Re: Screwplay

I think if you had specific knowledge of UTG that he always has AX here just 'cause his range is so specific, then yeah I think I would k/r. Example, he never has an overpair because he didn't 3! the flop and he only opens big AX and big pairs UTG full ring.

You'd have to have a lot of hands played with villain to know this though, in which case you probably wouldn't have posted it.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:21 AM   #12
Montrealcorp
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Re: Screwplay

Could a miss c/r being check around in a 5 players spot could cost more than the benefit of a successful c/r that could potentially entice folds ?
like the last player IP bet ,
It comes to you to c/r risking lot of folds after you
compare to just over calling and hoping calls .
Mind as well just bet to make sure 1 bet goes in ?
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:47 AM   #13
Captain R
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Re: Screwplay

Well, you can just make it a simple calculation. Let's say when you bet, you get 1 bet, when you k/r you get 2. If you think UTG is betting > 50%, then it's better to k/r. If not, then it's not.

Not sure if you read my post, but I was talking specifically about UTG. Who knows what the rest of these people have.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:13 PM   #14
Montrealcorp
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Re: Screwplay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain R View Post
Well, you can just make it a simple calculation. Let's say when you bet, you get 1 bet, when you k/r you get 2. If you think UTG is betting > 50%, then it's better to k/r. If not, then it's not.

Not sure if you read my post, but I was talking specifically about UTG. Who knows what the rest of these people have.
+1
Yes I was speaking generally not specifically to your post
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:08 PM   #15
ninefingershuffle
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Re: Screwplay

Captain has this right. It’s all about whether utg will bet the turn. When h e doesn’t three bet the flop, his range shifts from pairs to Ax.
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Old 05-18-2020, 02:08 AM   #16
maka2184
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Re: Screwplay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain R View Post
Well, you can just make it a simple calculation. Let's say when you bet, you get 1 bet, when you k/r you get 2. If you think UTG is betting > 50%, then it's better to k/r. If not, then it's not.

Not sure if you read my post, but I was talking specifically about UTG. Who knows what the rest of these people have.
+1

Both your posts might be one of best posts I've read in 2020 for LHE that explained question concisely
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:57 PM   #17
Unguarded
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Re: Screwplay

You can get away with never screwplaying anything ever with minimal consequences fwiw. But it is just especially bad here. I see people do crazy things like check small flushes or trips in these spots sometimes. A screwplay looks like a boat and will almost certainly freeze anything worse than A4.

When screwplaying is advantageous, it is usually very close in value to betting. I personally save it for heads up pots against strong players or maybe when someone to my left telegraphs a good, but slightly worse hand and my own hand is only worth 2 bets. "Succeeding" with a screwplay when you have a nutty hand often means that you missed a bet-3bet. It is especially awful if your opponent can read your hand well enough to fold the river. This will actually happen sometimes because screwplaying looks like a nutty hand on a board like this. And in certain live poker cultures, people really get their rocks off making "sick folds" (Hint: remember these people and decapitate them with wild bluffs for the rest of their lives).

Never screwplaying is very hard to exploit for anyone other than very advanced heads up types who study bots and solvers like crazy. And even then, you can probably get away with waiting for especially good spots to use it.
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