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schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way

05-09-2024 , 11:33 AM
Table had been a bit schizo, with about every 4th pot 3 bet or capped. Others just limped but several players calling all the way.

For awhile it was like the glory days where 6-8 were seeing the flop, almost always calling my raises,etc.

8 handed as someone just left. I felt lost in this hand and want some feedback.

UTG folds, loose UTG+1 calls, I am next and limp with A7 uber loose player next to me calls, call, BTN raises, LAGy SB who likes to 3B does so, I prepare to fold but then the BB cold calls and UTG+1 cold calls, I am getting 7 to 1 call, so I do, call, fold, BTN just calls. 9 BB in pot.

Was this a cap for me? Should I be raising even with the paired board?

Flop comes 9 5 5

Checked to me, I check because of the paired board, checked to BTN who bets, LAGy SB raises, BB calls, UTG+1 cold calls, getting 6 to 1 I cold call again, call, call. 15 BB

3 bet?

Turn is the J

SB bets out, BB now raises, UTG+1 calls, now I am getting 10 to 1 to call so I do, call, call, SB calls. CRAZY ****. 27 BB

River is non spade Q. More action, I muck disgusted. I think final pot was 30+ BB.

Winner was the BB with his J4

I counted 7 flopped flush draws in 6 hours, missed all 7. Many were in pots like this. So sad.

Table was like this for about an hour, I was not able to profit, but it was glorious.

Last edited by killians3; 05-09-2024 at 11:38 AM. Reason: edit add this was a 4/8 game
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-09-2024 , 11:44 AM
you play too passively.

raise pre the first time. after that you could cap or call pre, doesn't really matter. i personally like to cap pre in pots like this, just for fun.

as played, bet the flop for value.

turn fine.

if you play like this in general im guessing you miss out on a lot of value overall in your sessions. your play screams "im a retiree and i just want to see who wins as cheap as possible."

also, if you missed 7 flush draws you should be down huge on the session - if not youre playing them wrong.

Last edited by NittyOldMan1; 05-09-2024 at 11:50 AM.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-09-2024 , 04:45 PM
bb won with J4 no backdoor anything draw? juiiiiiicy game.

I like raising pre as well, but I honestly donít mind the limp. flop you could bet or check. I like 3betting the flop for value after checking. turn is standard.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-09-2024 , 08:37 PM
"im a retiree and i just want to see who wins as cheap as possible."

yeah thats what I felt like lol(not a retiree yet)..but with the paired board I lost the plot.

To the above comments, A8/9s is my raise point pre in this spot, so it was close, are you raising there with any Axs?

Are you jamming all your non-nut or 2 nd nut FDs all the time? If so I am missing something there.

On a non paired board I am CR/3 betting/capping the flop all day.

I need to look at pokerstove and do some homework on this one.

I was up almost 2 racks early when the FD drought started, wound up down about 1.25 racks. Won some other nice hands outside the "golden hour" I mention above or I would have been down 3-4 racks. Just no flushes.

Thanks for the feedback, this forum is kind of dead and I appreciate the time.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-09-2024 , 09:44 PM
For whatever it's worth, it tilts me when the table is so juicy and I keep getting dealt one unplayable hand after another
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-09-2024 , 11:06 PM
Ok wow after some quick homework I still have a ton of equity on the flop, even with the paired board. Got to remember that for next time.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-09-2024 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
For whatever it's worth, it tilts me when the table is so juicy and I keep getting dealt one unplayable hand after another
Had that situation a couple of sessions ago for about 2 hours. Made me want to puke.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-10-2024 , 11:50 AM
Raise pre the first time (and don’t even think about folding) and bet the flop. Your equity is great even with the paired board. There are paired boards where’d I’d play more defensively (JTT for example) but this is not one of them.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-13-2024 , 09:49 AM
"I counted 7 flopped flush draws in 6 hours, missed all 7. Many were in pots like this. So sad."

Stop counting. It does no good.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-14-2024 , 12:47 PM
For whatever it's worth, I think limping along with A7s instead of raising it is a small mistake at worst in early position. In LATE position I raise limpers with it all day to try to buy the button and get a 4-card flop. In early position I don't have issue with trying to see the flop as cheaply as possible.

I don't have time to do the math right now, but make a list of all of the hands that have A7s crushed - A8-AK and 77 to AA - and calculate the probability that at least one villain behind you has one of them. You will be alarmed at how high the probability is when there are 6 villains left to act.

Maybe the others are just more comfortable navigating difficult spots post-flop than I am.

A7s is not just an implied odds hand, it's a REVERSE implied odds hand. Really, if you don't flop two more of your suit, which only happens about 1 time in 7, you're likely going to be done with the hand. MAYBE you could flop a pair and a BDNFD but that's not much to get too excited about. If you flop two overcards you won't be excited about that for sure. Even if you flop an ace, that's not horrible, but you could easily call an ace with a better kicker to the river.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-14-2024 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
For whatever it's worth, I think limping along with A7s instead of raising it is a small mistake at worst in early position. In LATE position I raise limpers with it all day to try to buy the button and get a 4-card flop. In early position I don't have issue with trying to see the flop as cheaply as possible.

I don't have time to do the math right now, but make a list of all of the hands that have A7s crushed - A8-AK and 77 to AA - and calculate the probability that at least one villain behind you has one of them. You will be alarmed at how high the probability is when there are 6 villains left to act.

Maybe the others are just more comfortable navigating difficult spots post-flop than I am.

A7s is not just an implied odds hand, it's a REVERSE implied odds hand. Really, if you don't flop two more of your suit, which only happens about 1 time in 7, you're likely going to be done with the hand. MAYBE you could flop a pair and a BDNFD but that's not much to get too excited about. If you flop two overcards you won't be excited about that for sure. Even if you flop an ace, that's not horrible, but you could easily call an ace with a better kicker to the river.
My thinking- With this schizo table and A7s OOP I don't want a 3 bet/cap Pre situation(in this case I was prepared to fold until the 2 cold calls gave me odds), I was hoping to get to the flop or 1 or 2 bets and flop big because I knew the action would be good. I didn't want to start a raising war but got caught up in one. Honestly if the table was full time 3 bet/cap pre I think I would muck pre in this position. Could be wrongthink, but feels too weak in that spot and situation.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-14-2024 , 07:19 PM
You guys are way too pessimistic. At a table where people are going bananas with crappy hands, you should not be looking for reasons to fold hands like A7s. This hand can flop strong hands (7xx with two undercards; A7x; trips), strong draws (the nut flush draw), and middling-strength draws and made hands worth continuing with in a big pot (one pair plus BDNFD; straight draw plus BDFND; etc.). Yes, some of these situations are not easy to navigate post flop, but that's not a reason to pass up the opportunity to play big pots with a hand that has more than its fair share of equity.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-15-2024 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killians3
My thinking- With this schizo table and A7s OOP I don't want a 3 bet/cap Pre situation(in this case I was prepared to fold until the 2 cold calls gave me odds), I was hoping to get to the flop or 1 or 2 bets and flop big because I knew the action would be good. I didn't want to start a raising war but got caught up in one. Honestly if the table was full time 3 bet/cap pre I think I would muck pre in this position. Could be wrongthink, but feels too weak in that spot and situation.
So what exactly is your raising range in this spot? And what do you think your opponents will continue with? Do the math on this with a hand range equity app and I think youíll find you have pretty decent odds against the field.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-15-2024 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkraisdraw
So what exactly is your raising range in this spot? And what do you think your opponents will continue with? Do the math on this with a hand range equity app and I think you’ll find you have pretty decent odds against the field.
I think I stated earlier in the thread this is right on the edge for me-A8/A9 is where I raise here. Apparently too tight, I will run some equity lab.

I guess my questions back is what is your fold range here? A5s? Are you playing all Axs for a raise in this spot? Do you want to face 2 cold on a cap with this holding and not good pot odds but possible implied? In the above hand if the BB and UTG don't call the 3 bet, are you folding or continuing?

Thanks for any feedback.

Edit: Ran a 6 way scenario in Equilab with pretty fishy ranges and I have 18% equity vs 16-17% for the rest of the field. With A8s I am closer to 19% and they are closer to 16%. With A9s I jump up to almost 20%.

Edit-Just ran a quick

Also a shoutout to Munga, I got EOP yesterday and read most of it. Some good nuggets in there. Love his section on what causes tilt.

Last edited by killians3; 05-15-2024 at 11:28 AM.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-15-2024 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killians3
I think I stated earlier in the thread this is right on the edge for me-A8/A9 is where I raise here. Apparently too tight, I will run some equity lab.

I guess my questions back is what is your fold range here? A5s? Are you playing all Axs for a raise in this spot? Do you want to face 2 cold on a cap with this holding and not good pot odds but possible implied? In the above hand if the BB and UTG don't call the 3 bet, are you folding or continuing?

Thanks for any feedback.

Edit: Ran a 6 way scenario in Equilab with pretty fishy ranges and I have 18% equity vs 16-17% for the rest of the field. With A8s I am closer to 19% and they are closer to 16%. With A9s I jump up to almost 20%.

Edit-Just ran a quick

Also a shoutout to Munga, I got EOP yesterday and read most of it. Some good nuggets in there. Love his section on what causes tilt.
I actually prefer suited axe wheel to A6s - A9s, but they are all good enough to raise a single limper unless he/she is a huge nit.

As a general rule, I donít fold pre once I have voluntarily put money in the pot. I certainly wouldnít do so with a suited Ax hand.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote
05-16-2024 , 08:42 AM
The suited aces all play better than their preflop hot & cold equity. Some more than others, for sure.
schizo table, A7s felt awkward the whole way Quote

      
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