the first read you should make live is who cbets 100% multiway and who doesn't (and obv donk multiway with good hands or draws against people that dont) because giving away free cards to the field is a disaster.

Pleased to see some recent activity here.

Been playing on auto-pilot for about 6-9 months, but I would like to tighten up my leaks as my local 4/8 game has changed post-Covid to being tighter preflop (3-4 flop from 6-8 to a flop) with a higher rake: Now $6 up to 10% + $3 promo 1 @ $10, 1@ $20, and 1 @ $30. Prefer limit to NL as a game eventhough the regular spread at the room is like 12 NL games and 1 Limit game.

My Stats since July 1 23

-1.12BB/hr over the past 28 sessions: 91 hours. (not counting any promo hits but this does include tipping for drinks out of my stack) -$811.00

My game has some leaks.

I usually leave a sesson with 3-4 spots noted; I will start posting them here for consideration.

If you’re a robot who can actually just make perfect adjustments all the time then so be it. Doesn’t sound like there is any evidence that you are making very good adjustments though.

No ideally you just fold 87s utg. I was simply explaining why raising is better than limping.

Fold >>>> Raise > Limp

If my math and understanding are correct, that is an off-the-charts-insane amount of money coming off the table. For simplicity let's say 30 hands an hour are getting dealt, 5 are $60+, 4 are $50+, 6 are $30+, 10 are $20+ and 5 are $10+. That's 5x(6+3) + 4x(5+3) + 6x(3+3) + 10x(2+2) + 5x(1+1) = 45+32+36+40+10=$183 an hour coming off the table. Assuming the table is 9-handed, you're paying $20 an hour for the privilege of sitting at the table. So over 91 hours you've paid $1,820 to sit at the table and you're only down, what, $900? You're actually BEATING the game, you're just getting reamed by rake.

Keep in mind as well, 91 hours is only about 2700 hands which is a sample size of basically nothing. On average you should have been dealt aces I think 13 times in that span, kings about 13 times, not sure how many times you'd be dealt AK. Do the math and see how much your winrate would swing over 2700 hands if you'd been dealt those 9 or 17 times each instead of 13, and if you'd won 20% more than your fair share of those hands vs. 20% less.

I'm assuming you've read the SSHE book MULTIPLE TIMES and are applying it to your game.

Temper your expectations, because if you're rarely getting more than 4 people to the flop, there just isn't as much easy money to win in those games as when you're regularly getting 7.

Sorry if that was more negative than you were expecting but I hope you'll find it useful.

Yeah, this sounds like it may be an unbeatable game - the worst rake i have ever heard mentioned here and not even that loose.

$11? No.

I interpreted the max as $9 - $6 rake plus 3 $1 jackpot drops. I also forgot to account for tipping the dealer so that's at least an additional $30 coming off the table, so $213/9 = about $25 an hour for the privilege of sitting at the table.

Still no

Still don't know what you're saying no to.

Making any sort of reasonable profit in a small stakes game with a massive rake

Oh. First thought you were disagreeing with me since you said no right after my post.

Not too negative. Have considered the game essentially "unbeatable", but I enjoy it so if I can keep the entertainment cost as low as possible by playing better, I don't mind putting in some effort.

And for the type of loose 4/8 games I was talking about...LIMPING is better than raising, IF your going to play the hand. Once again, you're not going to beat a loose 4/8 game with 20/40 tactics.

[QUOTE=checkraisdraw;58458162]If you’re a robot who can actually just make perfect adjustments all the time then so be it. Doesn’t sound like there is any evidence that you are making very good adjustments though.







The evidence is in my pocket!!!! lmao! And which of my adjustments do you have a problem with? Or was your statement more emotion than facts?

Ahhhh yes, the unbeatable game LOL. I will never understand this and it seems to be the consensus opinion on the topic. How can a game that is going off 4-8 ways, people who are playing literally 95% of hands dealt to them, who are also playing "fit or fold" People who when they raise there range is EXACTLY! ..AA, KK, QQ, & AK. Same people willing to call down to river with lil as a gutshot draw. (Example..I won a huge pot friday night , was a kill pot...I flopped a set on a wet board...betting went crazy, raise, reraise, reraise...Im sitting there praying for the board to pair because Im sure my set is no good...river bricks..after they raise and reraise again., at this point im calling but cryin inside....they both turn over 2pair and I sccop with the set! But how the hell do you putin that much action with just 2pair with for to a str8 on turn! ) And yes because of rake money is flowing off table...HOWEVER!!!!!! no one ever talks about the money flowing onto the table! With literally an ENDLESS supply of people waiting to get into the game...wouldn't that mean that there is an endless supply of money flowing into the game? Trust me, these games are beatable! right table selection, and playing correctly....if you haven't already check out IZMET Fekali's advice on playing in loose low limit games.

Skim, what is your $/hr after rake and tip in $4/$8?

SKIM? please address me as MR Slim! lol....I have no idea! I don't track results, I dont pokerstove, or whatever other software one might use, have no hand charts, just the experiences. And like I said, I dont hold myself up as a 4/8 guru...but I have had success using these tactics. How do I know Ive been successful? Simple, I put more money in my pocket than I take out! lmao...

You apparently misread the post. He said it used to have up to 8 people seeing a flop, but now it is only 3-4.

Of course an extremely loose game with a very high rake can still be beaten. I was speaking specifically about this game, which is not extremely loose.

slim, out of curiosity have you read the book we're discussing in this thread? Small Stakes Hold'Em by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth?

YEP, when I first started playing back at the Normandie.

NO, I understood that. When I was last in here, which was a few years ago, the consensus was that 4/8 was unbeatable because of the rake? This never sounded right to me and still doesn't

Some 4/8 games are definitely beatable. If you understood that this one was a tighter game with an extremely high rake, why would you laugh at my post? Been holding in the laugh for a few years and couldn't hold it any longer?

LMAO....rob are your feelings hurt? lmao! The fact that you are willing to admit that some and not just the EXTREMELY loose games, but the loose games as well, are beatable is good enough for me. Why did I laugh at your post....because you amuse me Rob...lol

No, my feelings aren't hurt, but your post made no sense and it was clear you didn't understand what you replied to.

Good Rob! I'm glad ur feeling weren't hurt. Hey if you feel my post made no sense...then that most be the case lol..my apologies...I will endeavor to post better!