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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 07-06-2018, 08:44 PM   #1
damedley
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Raise with Jacks?

8/16 LHE at Orleans 9 handed

1 player folds, 1 limp, next player raises, 4 folds to hero in SB with Jacks.

I would usually reraise here but I felt it would be 3 or 4 handed anyway so I just call. (Interesting decision A) BB calls, limper calls. I don't know any of these players.

Flop AA9 two suits. Checked around.

Turn T of a third suit. Checked to original raiser who bets and hero raises. (Interesting decision B)

Here I'm thinking if I get raised I can reliably fold for the same investment as calling the turn and river while maybe getting out Kings and Queens and definitely getting out KQ. If called on the turn by any of the three players I will check fold the river.

Did I play this well? I'll post the result later.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:55 PM   #2
SetofJacks
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Definitely 3-bet pre. Doesn't matter if the two other players call or fold - you get value from them if they call, and dead money from them if they fold.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:32 PM   #3
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Are you raising for value or as a bluff?

Which worse hands will call you?

What better hands will fold?
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:31 AM   #4
datsmahname
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Raise pre. If you call, x/c flop. If you call flop, x/c turn. Raising looks like a fishy soooted Ax hand. And besides that its hard to peel that flop with weird coldcalls preflop.

3 bet pre and then let's talk about whether to c-barrel the turn.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:09 AM   #5
rodeo
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

3 bet pre flop.

As played, turn is interesting.

Donít post the results. They donít matter for the purposes of this forum. They only make responders biased.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:42 AM   #6
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Are you raising for value or as a bluff?

Which worse hands will call you?

What better hands will fold?
He already said he's not raising for value, but for bluff and protection against against hands with outs.

But honestly I don't much like either goal here. Seems more likely that villain has an ace than a big pair or KQ.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:18 PM   #7
Aaron W.
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

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Originally Posted by damedley View Post
Here I'm thinking if I get raised I can reliably fold for the same investment as calling the turn and river while maybe getting out Kings and Queens and definitely getting out KQ. If called on the turn by any of the three players I will check fold the river.
How frequently do you think you see KK, QQ, or KQ here? It seems like an oddly specific hand range to be focusing on.

I'm far more inclined to just call on the turn. If I can get to showdown for 1-2 bets, I think that's much better than not getting to showdown for 2 bets.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:25 PM   #8
suchj0sh
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Are you raising for value or as a bluff?

Which worse hands will call you?

None

What better hands will fold?
None
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:56 AM   #9
damedley
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

What pocket pairs are ok to just call pre with in this spot?
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:19 AM   #10
Aaron W.
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damedley View Post
What pocket pairs are ok to just call pre with in this spot?
There's no fixed rule. It would depend a little bit on the raiser and the tendencies of the other players in the pot.

With the only action being limp, then raise, I definitely 3-bet TT and probably also 3-bet 99.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:17 AM   #11
damedley
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Who would check an ace on the flop after raising preflop and all three opponents checking?
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:55 AM   #12
callipygian
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damedley View Post
Who would check an ace on the flop after raising preflop and all three opponents checking?
AK to trap
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:06 PM   #13
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damedley View Post
8/16 LHE at Orleans 9 handed

1 player folds, 1 limp, next player raises, 4 folds to hero in SB with Jacks.

I would usually reraise here but I felt it would be 3 or 4 handed anyway so I just call. (Interesting decision A) BB calls, limper calls. I don't know any of these players.

Flop AA9 two suits. Checked around.

Turn T of a third suit. Checked to original raiser who bets and hero raises. (Interesting decision B)

Here I'm thinking if I get raised I can reliably fold for the same investment as calling the turn and river while maybe getting out Kings and Queens and definitely getting out KQ. If called on the turn by any of the three players I will check fold the river.

Did I play this well? I'll post the result later.
Interesting decision A isn't interesting at all, and frankly it's terrible. Why would you willingly offer the BB and limper a great price here? You need to be 3 betting. Calling could be ok if you were the BB.

Raising the turn could be okay but not for the reason you state. Original raiser is repping a hand like KT/QT here frequently and we can potentially get called down by those hands. Or we can check raise to face naked spade hands with 2 cold and get value from a Ks range-stab (let's pretend the board is 3 spades).

However, what we don't do is raise to see where we are at like you seem to be doing here. KK/QQ isn't folding here, and if I'm wrong it's frankly a shocker. And check raising the turn to check fold to a bet on the river is really really bad. How did you "see where you're at" if they bet the 3rd suit card and call the raise? There's bluffing in poker. In limit hold em, there's even value betting with a worse hand here. There's times to bloat and float, but when you're in a spot where the original raiser checks an AA9tt and bets a T of third suit turn, that's not the time.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:56 PM   #14
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
Interesting decision A isn't interesting at all, and frankly it's terrible. Why would you willingly offer the BB and limper a great price here? You need to be 3 betting. Calling could be ok if you were the BB.

Raising the turn could be okay but not for the reason you state. Original raiser is repping a hand like KT/QT here frequently and we can potentially get called down by those hands. Or we can check raise to face naked spade hands with 2 cold and get value from a Ks range-stab (let's pretend the board is 3 spades).

However, what we don't do is raise to see where we are at like you seem to be doing here. KK/QQ isn't folding here, and if I'm wrong it's frankly a shocker. And check raising the turn to check fold to a bet on the river is really really bad. How did you "see where you're at" if they bet the 3rd suit card and call the raise? There's bluffing in poker. In limit hold em, there's even value betting with a worse hand here. There's times to bloat and float, but when you're in a spot where the original raiser checks an AA9tt and bets a T of third suit turn, that's not the time.
Oh and FWIW, the most likely hand I'd show up with here on a third spade is like KT and KQ so if you xr turn against me, you should 100% value bet any non T/Q/K/ river and never ever ever consider folding a card that isn't one of those. Obviously people are weirder and trappier but they'll still have this stuff as well.
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:33 PM   #15
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damedley View Post
Who would check an ace on the flop after raising preflop and all three opponents checking?
A lot of players at these levels love to slowplay the flop, especially if it isn't likely to have hit anyone else.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:57 AM   #16
colt45ss
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

agreed ^^
and especially there.
many players love the delayed turn raise with trips or sets.
this hand is so much easier to play with a 3 bet pre.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:56 PM   #17
Captain Underpairs
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Re: Raise with Jacks?

Raise pre. Bet flop. Call down on anything lower than a J. I dont like ops line.

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