Pre flop check up posts. - Page 94 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

In what circumstances are we 3-betting next in with mid-high suited connectors, i.e. JTs-98s? Just on the button? Against all MP/LP opens? Never? Are we ever 3-betting next in with worse, i.e. 87s, 76s?

FWIW, I 3 bet pretty liberally with everything down to 87s against everything but in EP open, in which case I only 3 bet JTs and sometimes T9s, but I feel like this may be a leak.

I might 3 bet hands like 76s on the button to a CO but I'm doing so with the read that They are opening wide and are non combative post. As a default, I 3b 9Ts in this situation. I may tighten up against tighter or tougher players.

I think you are 3 betting too wide. It's hard to overcome the range deficit if you are targeting EP players with suited connectors. If you are 3 betting from anywhere other than late position you will often be putting yourself in a spot where you are OOP. This is not what you want with suited connectors.

Quote

07-23-2019 , 02:32 PM

#2327

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by SetofJacks

I'd 3-bet the 88, call or 3-bet the 77, call or fold the 55, and fold the 22.

I agree!

If I think there is a good chance I can get it 3 ways with 77's I will pound. 88's feel strong enough to take the aggressive action most of the time depending on who is behind me.

If I think there will be several players behind me or there is reason to believe my implied odds are good I will call the smaller pairs.

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07-27-2019 , 10:31 AM

#2328

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

UTG is new to the game but seems to be a TAG. UTG+1 is very loose and passive. I am UTG +2. The rest of the players include one TAG, one Lag, A tight passive, and 3 loose passive regs.

UTG opens, UTG +2 calls. If I choose to call I think there will end up at least 5 players. If I choose to 3 bet I might get it 3 way but It could just as easily end up 4 or 5 ways or more.

What would you do with these....88's 77's 55's 22's?

3bet the 88's 77's.

Fold 55's and 22's.

Quote

07-27-2019 , 11:30 AM

#2329

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Call.

Why do you want to 3 bet hands that you’d normally fold vs. a single player’s UTG open? Or are you 3 betting 77 and 88 vs. an UTG open?

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07-27-2019 , 11:45 AM

#2330

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

MP TAG that can open light open raises.

HERO has 66 on HJ

Cutoff is expert LAGTAG
Button is a NIT TAG
SB is maniac LAG
BB is bad LAGTAG whose too loose pf

*Question*
Is 66 a 3 bet, call, or fold by HERO in HJ?

*Table Image*
My image is tight TAG at the table vs all.
However, no history vs maniac LAG who just sat down.

Last edited by maka2184; 07-27-2019 at 11:52 AM.

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07-27-2019 , 12:35 PM

#2331

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,882

3bet.

Quote

07-27-2019 , 01:53 PM

#2332

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Fold 66. The reason why we three bet light is to flex our good heads up post flop skills in position and get the blinds to fold to put dead money in the pot.

Without a more specific read on how we can abuse mp TAG post flop (e.g. he's too fit or fold or he spews semibluffs) I do not want to play a low pp multiway with a maniac and a LAGTAG in the mix for multiple preflop bets eating into my implied odds.

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07-28-2019 , 11:22 PM

#2333

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by maka2184

close but i fold

88 is a 3 bet

77 is grey area

Quote

07-29-2019 , 06:29 PM

#2334

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Next level: fold 66 and change seats to the left of the maniac.

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08-03-2019 , 02:50 AM

#2335

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper6788

Next level: fold 66 and change seats to the left of the maniac.

Thank you.

Many would probably disagree but I think changing seats live is terrible for the game. Especially if it causes maniac LAG to remotely consider leaving. Probably #1 spot in game who will dump at least 100 big bets during session.

I think 77+ is auto 3 bet. 66 now think should be 3bet based on my table image and play history vs villain.

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08-03-2019 , 01:04 PM

#2336

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by maka2184

Constantly changing seats to get on the left of a bad player is bad. Changing seats one time to significantly improve your situation is mandatory.

I think you are looking for trouble 3 betting 66's here. This could easily end up a 4 way capped pot given the description of the SB and BB. If the SB plays maniacle post flop you may be put into some very difficult situations especially if the player to your right tries to leverage you out of the pot. I think 88's are too strong to fold. They have more playability post flop and can withstand some pressure. I would take my chances with 77's if I thought it was more likely to be a 3 way or less pot.

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08-03-2019 , 02:43 PM

#2337

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

I agree with mongi that if your in a terrible spot you got to switch seats. I empathize with the feeling that it could be bad for the game if it's obvious you're moving around a lot just to abuse a particular player.

Quote

08-03-2019 , 04:17 PM

#2338

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Thanks mongidig. Think your right about both points. 88+ 100%. Adjust accordingly w 77 if confident can be 3 ways. Fold 66. I folded 66 on hand example I had when I was in HJ due to maniac SB.

Regarding changing seats, I agree as well since I used to online. Live I just stopped in case fish left but that's probably more likely online. The maniac LAG ended up dumping 200 big bets total after he was down 100 big bets when I left at 4am fyi. Need to learn to play better and win lock better

Quote

08-07-2019 , 01:34 PM

#2339

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,882

UTG, co, button limp, sb complete. I assume KQo is an auto raise here?

Quote

08-07-2019 , 03:13 PM

#2340

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

UTG, co, button limp, sb complete. I assume KQo is an auto raise here?

yes. check KJo.

Quote

08-07-2019 , 08:19 PM

#2341

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,544

Quote:

Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1

yes. check KJo.

Raise KJ too

Quote

08-12-2019 , 09:05 AM

#2342

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Don’t raise KJo

Quote

08-13-2019 , 10:57 AM

#2343

bruce

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,318

Pretty common spot with good players responding very differently.

Bad player who opens too much opens UTG. Hero is on the button with:

KTo
KJo
QJo

Best play?

Quote

08-13-2019 , 01:34 PM

#2344

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

Pretty common spot with good players responding very differently.

Bad player who opens too much opens UTG. Hero is on the button with:

KTo

KJo

QJo

Best play?

It's folded to you and rake isn't horrendous (i.e., online or live 20/40+)? Can you clearly articulate in your head how he is bad and in what way you specifically can exploit his unbalanced post flop play?

If yes to these questions, then 3-bet all of those hands

Quote

08-15-2019 , 09:50 AM

#2345

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

Pretty common spot with good players responding very differently.

Bad player who opens too much opens UTG. Hero is on the button with:

KTo

KJo

QJo

Best play?

Fold

Quote

08-15-2019 , 11:35 AM

#2346

bruce

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,318

I’ll typically fold with these types of hands but I see “good“ players call or 3 bet with them in LA at 20-40+. I’ll define a bad player as someone who plays too many hands, is passive, overly sticky, and will call on the river with Ace high

Quote

08-15-2019 , 02:17 PM

#2347

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,882

When you call on the river with a high and win you’re a genius. When you call and lose you’re a bad player.

Quote

08-15-2019 , 02:55 PM

#2348

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Calling on the river with A hi can be expert at times.

Quote

08-15-2019 , 03:45 PM

#2349

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,882

Honestly in some spots calling on the river with a high is completely standard. Especially against certain opponents.

Anyway a couple interestingish spots

8/16. In the bb with 109hh. Utg limp, +2 limp, mp raise, hj 3bet, sb call. Fold, call, or spite cap?

20/40. Utg limp, +1 raise, mp call, hj call, button 3bet. AJcc. Fold, call, or cap?

Quote

08-15-2019 , 06:03 PM

#2350

lawdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Call the T9 suited. That hand likes multi-way action so you don't want UTG and UTG+2 to fold.

The AJ suited depends somewhat on ranges. It's not a fold- you have enough equity even if you are up against some narrow ranges. But if UTG+1 and BUT are LAGgish you have a significant likelihood of actually being ahead and should cap, whereas if they have narrow ranges you have a drawing hand and should probably just call.

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