More the previous paragraph.

It just feels to me that we will have to play so passively when we hit the flop due to RIO concerns multiway that we will get the worst of it long term.

So we get in a c/r and get 3! holding TPGK and we are forced to c/c down quite often.

Maybe I'm being too much of a nit. I'm not saying I would fold, just that I think it's close. I'd probably call in game speed.

I also think it’s close, but at 8/16 they are more passive so might not even 3bet you with ak/aq that coolers us.


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Here are my first few thoughts about dealing with a maniac at the table just straight off the top of my head:

1. If you can't handle double to triple the swings of your normal games, rack up.
2. You want the maniac on your immediate right. Period. Be IN position and be in CONTROL.
3. When in position, you obviously want to liberally 3-bet the maniac so you can get heads up with dead money in the middle, but remember there are 7 other people in the hand who could wake up with a legitimate hand, so don't stray too far from your standard opening ranges to 3-bet the maniac.
4. I HATE cold-calling in late position, even when the maniac has raised and gotten 2 or 3 coldcalls. If I'm in the CO or BTN and I have a hand I want to play, if it's not strong enough to 3-bet I fold it. By the way, assuming the maniac was the raiser and the coldcallers have loose calling standards, my 3-betting range in that situation would be most if not all of my raising range in the same position if I'm in the CO or BTN after 3 or 4 limpers.
5. Do what I SAY, not what I DO - resist the temptation to limp-reraise in early position when the maniac is on your left. It feels like a genius tactic when it works, but it can cost you a ton of value when the maniac fails to build the pot for you. Accept the fact that when you're out of position you're out of control and just play your hand.
6. Do what I SAY, not what I DO - resist the temptation to limp-call in early position with a marginal hand, i.e. one you would consider overlimping in late position. If your hand is strong enough to raise from that position, raise. If not, fold. Playing marginal hands out of position is suicide in essentially ANY poker game.
7. Know how the maniac plays postflop too. Every now and then you'll run into a player who will put a ton of chips in the pot with a hand that TPTK beats.

This is probably right, but it is a reason to play on a strong roll. If the game gets amazing and you have to leave, something has failed.

There are many kinds of maniac. I'd point out that a true maniac (one who puts in every aggressive action possible, no matter what) should be on your left. It gives you options because you already have position on him -- he's taking an aggressive action and you get to act last vs that action. While you may decide not to have initiative vs. him, it doesn't matter because he doesn't care. You get to decide if the table faces your collective two bets at once or on the installment plan.
This is just wanting to have initiative. There should be hands where you're getting correct odds to call in a muliway pot that you don't want to reopen the betting for the maniac or the potential LRR up front. It is fine to realize that you're not comfortable in these spots, but you're playing raise or fold because you've been taught to do so. It isn't because it is the best line. Get comfortable.
This is about knowing your customer. Against someone who is just too LAGgy, sure. Against a true "if you raise, I re-raise" gonzo player, LRR could be the perfect line.
You need to consider relative position, as well. There are spots where you expect to play a single raised pot 7 ways and have decent relative position to the maniac. Especially at a table where once the pot becomes multiway, people will give up on the isolation plays you recommend. This advice is generally pretty good, but you could be passing on profitable spots that a really good player might play well.
You need more maniacal maniacs. "Usually needs TPRK to give action" seems not a high quality one.

Have you ever encountered a maniac who literally raises 100% without fail? Just curious. What if the maniac is "only" raising, say, 80%? Would you still want that maniac on your left? I'd still prefer to have him on my right because I don't want "If I limp is this one of the hands he flats or folds instead of raising?" to be on my mind, I want control.

I'm so used to playing with people who don't know you're ALLOWED to LRR that I'm a little spoiled.

Example spots?

Yes. I've been in games with true maniacs. In the 100/100 challenge, I've been the true maniac. People adjusted horribly to it.


If "only" 80%, then close spots probably aren't the maniac situation. Still if the base rate of maniacal raises is 80%, many of the clearly profitable spots are still plenty profitable.

Playing 100/100, people who think this aren't a problem as opponents. "Control" is an illusion vs. someone who has zero fear/care about your actions.
I'm sure you can come up with spots where you have relative position vs a maniac, where you don't have true position but do have excellent relative position.

I raise A5o+ in this spot, so I’m not sure what I was talking about saying that A9o was close. I guess I must’ve been confused.

I don't like isoing a calling station with A5o with an aggressive button and loose calling blinds. I'd need A7o+ here and maybe that should be tighter.

Sure. That’s a reasonable adjustment. My default/starting point is A5o. So, A9o is a pretty easy/standard raise there.

These hands play worse multiway but we have good position so does it make sense to tighten up the open raise with multiple limpers (but definitely play ATo).

Let's say three limpers. My instinct would be to raise/fold top pair hands like low Axo and Kxo, raise high to middling Axs high Kxs, overlimp low Axs and middling to low Kxs.

Once there are multiple limpers and the pot is going to be multi-way, I tend to tighten my raising range. After one limper, I play raise or fold. After 2+ limpers, I employ all 3 options.

Regarding 2+ limpers, your instincts are slightly off imo. You’d want to fold low AXo hands. I, controversially, limp along with AJo. My raising range for offsuit aces is AQ and AK. Suited aces I may occasionally raise as low as A5s. But A2o-A9o are just straight trash once there are 2+ limpers.

Lets say you are the BB in a half kill pot. 20/40.

It's folded to you with the killer still left to act. If the killer is an aggressive player he will probably raise if you just throw in the two chips to complete. Does this become a raise or fold situation and if so how strong of a hand are you looking to have?

What would you do with 97s? A2o?

Maybe this is a limp your whole range spot.

It’s basically the same situation as playing a bvb situation in a 2 chip 3 chip game. I would probably raise my entire range and accept the variance involved with that. If possible I would try to chop in that situation, personally, but I don’t play in any games where the kill has absolute last action.


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So killer acts last? If so, never ever just toss in two chips without a predetermined, balanced strategy. Play raise or fold and treat it as if it were BvB and you’re the SB.

When I’m the killer in this spot and my lone opponent completes, I don’t even look at my cards before I raise. It’s pretty exploitable.

That seems pretty exploitable for him to start limp reraising you.

Exploitative strategies tend to also be exploitable.

In order to play a juiced pot OOP?

If kill is raising any two cards you can LRR wide for value, reverse implied odds of pumping the pot heads up pre-flop can't be that awful can they?

Lag UTG just limps, folded to us on the button.

1) The blinds are tight...We have JTo

2) The blinds are loose..We have JTo

I think I raise both but that's rock bottom for my offsuit connectors. 1 is easy yes. 2 mostly yes but I especially raise if I have a good sense of how I can exploit each player postflop in more detail.

I never overlimp here.

I agree!

Two loose regulars limp in ep, A lag/tag raises in the CO, I am next to act on the button. The blinds are tight.

What do you do with Ad4d
Ad7d
Ad9d

A4s I'd dump. I don't want to pay two with small A suited.

The others are tough. I definitely 3! ATs+.

The middle Aces I'm not sure. In reality I must be mixing here. I hate being first in two cold but I like thinking I can get 5-1 on them from a loose field. If the EP loose regs have much of a LRR range or I think the tight blinds can 3 often I'll dump em.

I would 3bet a9 suited and dump the other two.


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