Pre flop check up posts. - Page 91 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

Ah forgot to put the offsuits in there.

Thanks rodeo for the feedback. You think any suited King is worth it here? Is the idea flush draw, two pair or muck?

In these games top pair no kicker rarely takes a pot. So many players see every turn.

Last edited by DrHoldemPhD; 04-21-2019 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Autocorrect plus more question

Quote

04-21-2019 , 08:57 PM

#2252

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

I totally missed the offsuits.

Quote

04-21-2019 , 08:58 PM

#2253

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

Rodeo certainly loves his small suited hands

Quote

04-21-2019 , 09:01 PM

#2254

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHoldemPhD

I think any suited king is worth it. And we’re trying to make a flush. Sometimes top pair will win too, but mostly just trying to make a flush.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 09:23 AM

#2255

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

I limp along with 88.

Raise:
99+, AJo+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s

Limp along:
88-22, A8s-A2s, K9s-K2s, Q9s-Q8s, J9s-J8s, T8s, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, 43s, ATo, KTo+, QTo+, JTo

This is close to my range except I would raise 77+ and A7s+ if the Button was tight.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:04 PM

#2256

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

This is close to my range except I would raise 77+ and A7s+ if the Button was tight.

Should definitely not be raising 77 or 88 regardless of the BTN.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:07 PM

#2257

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

How are you drawing a line between 88 and 99?

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:08 PM

#2258

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHoldemPhD

How are you drawing a line between 88 and 99?

Like this...

99
——
88

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:18 PM

#2259

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

Makes sense. Sorry to be nitty, but is that two hyphens or an endash?

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:24 PM

#2260

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Equity for this spot,

77 33%
88 37%
99 41%

From a technical standpoint we need a minimum of 25% equity to raise. That’s super duper thin though and hot/cold equity doesn’t tell the whole story. I’d want a minimum of 12-15% more than fair share equity before I even consider raising. This acts as a buffer from all the times we whiff the flop (overcards), make a set and lose to bigger set, make a set and lose to a straight, etc. In multi-way pots we don’t get to realize our equity as often nor does our hand hold up as often. So 88 are close, but not quite there. 99 have too much equity not to raise. And that’s how I draw the line.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:24 PM

#2261

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHoldemPhD

Makes sense. Sorry to be nitty, but is that two hyphens or an endash?

Lol. 4 hyphens.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:25 PM

#2262

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

Lol. 4 hyphens.

Ah, two en dashes ok.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:33 PM

#2263

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

4% drop per pip is much steeper that I would've thought. Need to stove more.

Are you including the button and blinds with ATC in the equity calc?
Edit: or maybe only their completes ranges...? That'd make more sense, equity when raiser is called.

Last edited by DrHoldemPhD; 04-22-2019 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Thought, and autocorrect

Quote

04-22-2019 , 12:42 PM

#2264

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHoldemPhD

I just did the 3 limpers and us. Too complicated to figure in ranges for players that haven’t acted yet. And the hands that the players yet to act will call with are already in the ranges of the limpers.

Quote

04-22-2019 , 03:00 PM

#2265

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

I'll see what stove says when I get off work tonight. We want to know equity when called to figure whether to raise (positive I've seen sklansky write that a few times). The hands that cold call are already in limpers ranges but our equity against three top 50%-ers is different than the equity against 4 or 5 of them.

It'll be a little complicated but can stove against the three limpers and then stove against one cold-caller with maybe 25-30% (or less depending) and two cold callers with that range. Then average the different equities together using a weighted average where the weights are how likely those players are to get a hand in those ranges.

Quote

05-01-2019 , 01:30 AM

#2266

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,873

Co limp, button raise. No reads except that both players are probably straightforward.

defend kqo in the sb?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

05-01-2019 , 01:35 AM

#2267

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

Yeah I defend that.

Probably 3-bet depending on how wide I think the button is and the rake doesn't just eat the big blind anyways so I can nom some dead money.

Quote

05-01-2019 , 01:57 AM

#2268

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Co limp, button raise. No reads except that both players are probably straightforward.

defend kqo in the sb?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 bet

Quote

05-01-2019 , 03:55 AM

#2269

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,873

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

3 bet

Ok. Lets say mp limp, co raise and button call. Still a 3bet?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

05-01-2019 , 10:12 AM

#2270

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Ok. Lets say mp limp, co raise and button call. Still a 3bet?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then I would call.

Quote

05-01-2019 , 02:08 PM

#2271

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

You open in the CO with a wide steal range. Btn folds. SB, a thoughtful TAG that you suspect understands how wide you open here, 3-bets you. He c-bets when he's preflop aggressor and rarely donks.

How wide do you cap and what kinds of flops are you checking back vs cbetting when you do?

Quote

05-01-2019 , 02:14 PM

#2272

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHoldemPhD

I never cap HU IP or OOP.

Quote

05-01-2019 , 02:24 PM

#2273

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

Interesting. So instead of widening cap range to balance it heads-up you just eliminated it so now your open/call range is stronger. You're not missing much preflop value because it's heads-up and you can get a flop raise in really often. I think this would mean you can semi-bluff more too because you have more monsters in your range for later streets.

Do you think keeping the pot small so you can fold really really bad flops is an advantage too or is the previous paragraph more of your reasoning?

Quote

05-01-2019 , 07:43 PM

#2274

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Ok. Lets say mp limp, co raise and button call. Still a 3bet?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really hate this spot with such a RIO hand. Not saying call is wrong, but it's a spot that makes me uncomfortable.

Quote

05-01-2019 , 07:50 PM

#2275

DrHoldemPhD

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by antneye

I really hate this spot with such a RIO hand. Not saying call is wrong, but it's a spot that makes me uncomfortable.

If BB comes along and limper completes you're getting over 5 to 1. If BB folds you're getting over 4 to 1. KQo is good enough for that I think and for the position if you hit you check raise and face the two limpers with two cold protecting your hand.

I just will 3-bet tight here because it sucks to be out of position in a bloated multiway pot with loose players.

Quote

Page 91 of 124

First

41 71 81 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 101 111

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 91 of 124

First

41 71 81 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 101 111

Last