I agree with Munga that when there’s a limper and a raiser, I 3 bet or fold. If there was a raiser and a caller, then I have a calling range.

Makes sense.

Do you tend to fold or 3 bet wtih 67s-JTs? In the original scenario?

3 bet.

Winning in tough Holdem games open raise chart: in a readless game, too tight or too loose?

WITHG results in you playing 23/19 or around that in a 6 handed game. Modern good LAGs play like 34/29? Stox's numbers were based on some data mining of games of his era, so they were dependent on his style and the villains of that time -- they came up with FSDR to exploit people of that time wanting to make "expert" turn laydowns. Since you can't play in games of 2006 any more, I believe that the charts haven't aged well. A good poker book talks concepts and how the author comes up with those concepts, so if you read the book for that and apply the process...


WITHG is too tight/passive for a modern 6h game. I would look at rodeo as one of the best players willing to post strategy on the forum. He 3 bets in spots that Stox didn't. His style is relentless and tenacious. People also didn't consider balance and correct bluffing frequencies in 2006, and strong modern players do. We all over cbet back then, and you didn't have to deal with experts who correctly checked back.


Don Juan of today would never quit Stox. That's how eras work. Go back and watch Oink videos from the time, where he was this insane LAG. They're also super entertaining, so watch them if you can find them. He was ahead of his time.

Thanks Doug! I'm getting up to speed again after being out of poker for 6-7 years (you may not remember me, reaper6788). I was playing lagtag 32/27ish (can't quite remember) but definitely don't think I was 3 betting as wide as rodeo... maybe will try.

I know this is preflop thread, but since flop cbet is strongly connected to preflop strategy, are there any good posts on checking back the flop vs cbet in a balanced way? Lol I remember getting chided by The Hip and others until my flop cbet was 90+%

Edit: I haven't taken the plunge into online yet again, but played a few live sessions. I was beating 2/4 pokerstars those days (2011) before the US crack down. Any recommendations for online us play these days?

I would love to learn more about properly checking back the flop. I have a feeling I'm doing it too much now. Maybe post some hands that you feel might be check backs. I would post some hands as well. I have a pretty good idea of the concept but I'm sure I am not doing it right in some spots.

I’m having difficulty coming up with hands to add to my range in order to get to 34 percent... I only play 41% on the button. I know this is referring to 6max but still.

Mongidig, I'll come up with some position scenarios and deal myself some flops and post one or two where I feel stuck this weekend. Maybe will try to remember a hand or two after I play live tomorrow.

I'm thinking the extra might be from 3-betting more.

So what percent of hands should I be openning from MP/6-max utg?

I open 77’s+, A8s+, ATo+, K9s+, Kjo+, qts, 87s+. Seems hard to add any more hands and my range already feels too loose.

We always used to tell people not chase stats, but instead work on the parts of your game that cause your stats to be "wrong". One thing you have to consider is your ability to play post flop and not make huge errors with these additional, likely marginal hands.

You might think that you can't play those hands very well now, so you keep your less LAG style and profit at your current stakes. As you improve, maybe you'll naturally play a little more aggressive poker? You could also consider that making mistakes now, at lower stakes, is cheaper than in the future. So get in there, mix it up, take your lumps, and learn stuff before you get to the mid/high stakes?


All of that to say that if I wanted to open up my game I'd add hands on BTN and CO way before I'd open up my BTN+3 range in a 6m game. In general, we want to play hands in position and against known weak opponents. I'd want to correctly 3 bet vs potentially non-premium opens. I'd want to isolate limpers and push edges against cold callers. One thing, going for more thin 3 bets against a LAG means you'll be in spots where he's comfortable and you're not. Consider that if you start bloating pots you have to be showdown bound enough based on these larger pots.
I do. TBH, I'm not as LAG as rodeo. He's a pro. I'm not. He plays better post flop than I do.

I do something like,

55+, A2s+, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, ATo+, KJo+, QJo

Kt, 66, q9s, jt more suited aces

Not JTo

KTo seems thin to me as well.

UTG opens...He has TT+ AJo+ ATs+ KQs+...He limps most of his broadway suited hands. He seems to C bet 100% of his hands even on bad boards that he misses.

The HJ and Button both call. They are horrible Asian players. They will call with any suited, off suit broadways. Both will 3b middle pairs, broadway suited hands etc. They are both very sticky post flop and both are fairly bluffy on the flop or when checked to.

Folded to me in the BB...I have 79o. Do you call?

Getting 7 to 1 and closing the action for only 1 bet, yes indeed.

I forget what standard odds threshold is for any two cards... 11-1? 7 to 1 is standard any two suited call so I consider that enough for a middling one gap too closing the action.

If I recall it is 13-1 for any two cards. However, I have had to unlearn some things throughout my poker career. I started with HFAP which is no longer applicable. Then I learned the aggression of online 6 max games which is typically not applicable in most live full ring game situations. I have had to dial back the aggression.

I usually call the 79 in this situation. I'm wondering if maybe I should ditch it in this particular case where the UTG is tighter than usual and the other players are laggy on the flop.

That means implied odds are bigger and even more reason to play this hand. One opponent you can put on a very tight range so you can easily get away when he's ahead. The other opponents are likely to spew on flop when you connect. Not only that but you have best relative position. Check to utg and watch what everyone else does after his cbet.

But I would loathe paying two so if, for example, it's 6 limps and I'm on the button with 97o I'm worried about how aggressive the blinds are and mucking if they are anything but calling stations. In bb closing the action on a big pot brewing it's easy call.

Edit: on the other hand if you hit middle pair or TPNK, how often are the lags facing you with two cold. Maybe in that situation you donk flop praying nit will put them with two cold

Yes

In theory, fold. In practice, I probably call, but it’s not great.

The 13:1 call any two cards thing is poppycock. It only considers hot/cold equity which, in itself, is really difficult to quantity when there are so many people in the pot. Also, RIO are real and many, many hands will suffer from RIO.

I agree!