No one is taking 10 seconds to call with 96s

That’s a snap call too.

If I had 96 I’m cr that flop because A5 is calling me down

Yeah, 96s was a bad example. I'd snap call it preflop too in that situation. I was trying to think of the marginal weak nine that would be a tough decision preflop but an easy flop XR given the action.

So is 95s a defense there? 94s?

How about make it 96o? I'm still calling quickly though.

Don’t discount the Hollywood factor

I considered that at the time but it took too long for it. The level of ass-hattery would be too high for most players.

A tight passive open limps at utg+1. A loose aggressive at MP1 calls. A loose passive at MP2 limps next in. Tight CO raises. Hero at BU with K8s. Both blinds are very loose preflop.

Is Hero's hand good enough to call preflop? What is the minimum of opponents for Hero to call profitably in the spot?

It would help to know the stakes for context/default reads but this is micro so....

I wrote up an argument why it's OK then convinced myself cold calling here is actually pretty bad. Here's my argument for cold calling, which I don't think is a good argument:



Basically you have a lottery ticket and lotteries are fun but not that fun because the tickets are too expensive. Seriously, if folding is wrong and you win a huge pot slightly more often than I'm now estimating (after rethinking), you still can't be giving up much. But if CO is even tighter than tight, you're giving up a lot.

'Lottery ticket' is a good way to put it. I sometimes make that call when the game is playing huge (and that's the only time I buy a Powerball ticket) and the blinds are not the types to make it 2-bets. But for me personally I have reason to show a goofy hand every now and then so that's an additional consideration.

K8s is a call

'Meh', at best and often enough -'Meh.'

We have best absolute position, but there are five players yet to act before the action can be closed.

I think we should consider the likelihood that the LAG in MP1 will throw in another raise.

A lag usually opens or raises but sometimes they do that. I'd put a low credence on it, though.

Personally, I would fold pre-flop if I'm playing good.

According to Solver, etc I'm sure this has to at least be a call preflop with the TAP fish UTG+1, LAG MP1, LAP fish MP2, TAG CO Pre Flop Raise, LAP SB and BB.

I personally would go

Fold > Raise > Call

In theory tough, I think it's closer to

Call > Rasie > Fold in terms of solvers and GTO

Maybe you're right. How do you know?

3-bet reraise, you mean? What's the rationale for preferring that to calling?

I'm just not accustomed to it. The habit of 6max game starter as a prop on Cereus never involved games where it seemed optimal to cold call rather than 3 bet preflop on BTN.

Even in 9max max games or full 6 max games, situation where cold calling on button was right rarely occurred since I played almost any random HUHU even if I had 3-4 other games running.

With that said, the live 20/40 half kill games I play in around Hammond Horseshoe is so soft so could see merit to cold calling being right.

I'm too stingy to buy a solver since I haven't had enough time to play real live poker at all for a good year other than drunk 3 handed games with friends for essentially monopoly money.

To answer your inquiry, my biased TAG fish play style when playing best would be on BTN with K8 suited (based on descriptions of villains and blinds) would be:

Fold > Raise > Call

In reality, I think it's at least burning a solid sklansky dollar by not entering the pot with multiple villains described as LAP fish or TAP fish.

In which case, I prefer to 3 bet raise over Cold Calling to at least attempt to price out SB and BB. 3 betting also gives more opportunities for bluffing postflop or taking free cards.

I fold. But it’s close

I would call K9s and maybe Q8s

Before K8s

This is some serious word salad


Ps.

Don’t 3 bet CO raises where that person has raised multiple limpers

With K8s

The correct order is


Fold>>call (imagine 136,209 of these >) raise

Thanks for this TheHip41!

Really wish I had a solver since I imagine mathematically calling on BTN vs assigned ranges of villains equates to call being profitable in the long run.

Apologies for the word salad.

I typically fold > call > raise here as well but almost never cold call so most likely fold for how I play.

I like it’s suited. But I would rather be able to flop
A gutshot

For me I’d rather call J7s over K8s

Not looking to with a 6 handed raised pot with k8

That's just it. Games where 3 limp in from early position and a tight CO raises are very different from tougher games. Strategies that you might never consider become correct. It's why Ed Miller's Small Stakes Hold Em was such a revelation in 2004 (and different from anything 2+2 had published before then).

Here, the only serious reason to consider 3! would be to knock out the blinds. But that's not good here because:

(1) our hand's ratio of flush value to top pair value is much much higher than it would be HU or 3-handed. In other words, while dead money is virtually always awesome in a limit game, most of the equity goes to the hands that likely dominate us, versus if they call then we improve the implied odds on our big flush

(2) they're "very loose" so they are likely to call anyway.

3. Your hand sucks.

Wins the thread.

(Actually it would take quite a post indeed to win an entire massive preflop checkup thread, but this wins the discussion about this situation.)

Yep.

And this is a classic "good player" leak. The fish in low limit games make lots of mistakes, but not this one. They love to keep the cost down and the number of players in the pot up, so they can collect a good return on their investment when they make their flush.

But when players get good, they figure that aggression is both a great strategy and fun, and they end up 3-betting 65 suited in 3 way pots and similar idiocies, when in fact there are some hands where the edge is just to get 17 percent of the money in with 21 percent of the equity, and the way to do that is to play like a fish and call.