Seeing a post like this in a basic strategy thread..

Opening KTs and QTs utg is not horrible. I don't know what you're trying to insinuate. I'm sure there are games out there in the world where I would want to trim some utg hands but I'm not playing in them. Maybe the games I play in are softer than anyone else that posts here?

I've been playing this way for a while but I recently purchased The Poker Academy's LHE course and Rep and Ian have the same opening range from UTG that I do and they didn't mention anything about the "weaker" suited Broadway hands perhaps being folds in certain lineups.

Ian is world class and crushes up to 200/400 and he's still opening that range.

How do you like the Academy? I saw it was a bit pricy. Is it worth it? Is it all limit?

The LHE course is the only one I've bought. I think the other courses are pretty expensive and don't interest me too much. I have tremendous respect for Ian and I know he's considered world class at LHE so I thought this course could be worth investing in.

It's pretty good. I've watched about 75% of it. There are some concepts I hadn't considered much, particularly donking the flop,but it mostly has just confirmed that I'm playing pretty well.

Sure. Tpirahna opens hands that most of us don't play UTG, as well. One of my friends and I were talking about whether or not he should open the more "adventurous" hands that he saw Tony playing at the Commerce 1/2, and my comment was "go beat the toughest/highest stakes online games in the world for a couple million, and then open any hands you want". Does Ian play those hands, or does he say he thinks you should play them? Just like my buddy and his experience with Tony, the next question is do you know why the high stakes genius is playing the hands and will you correctly pick the spots to pass on them?

If your answer is "I open wider than most in EP, because there is good value and here's why and how", I'd say go for it. Over the last 15 years, good players have become more LAG. Maybe most of us are still really nitty in UTG. Seeing Ian or Tony open those hands early wouldn't necessarily say that you or I should be doing so, especially if we (or just I) don't understand their whole EP strategy.

Guessing they both cbet less often than many of us and that they donk check when OOP in spots that we'd mindlessly cbet. That likely goes along with the expert donking you're seeing in the videos. The geniuses aren't always checking to the preflop aggressor and they aren't cbetting nearly as much as most of us always have.

I was opening these hands before I watched the videos. I don't consider them adventurous. This strategy has been working out really well for me for many years now. I'm not surprised to see experts endorsing it.

Maybe kts is a better hand than I am giving it credit for, still I think it is far from a routine utg open and felt obligated to pump the brakes in the context of opening any 2 suited broadway utg

Or at least prefer that it be discussed in the context of proper game dynamics

I have played in many good games with 2+ terrible players, several average (losing) players, and 1-2 other winning players and still think it is quite challenging to play hands like qjs utg profitably

Edit:

I can accept that including hands like kts in the utg range could create value for a player's overall range, even if they might be -ev individually - I think that once you reach this point though it requires very deep strategy discussion on your full range, especially suited connectors

Opening any suited broadway from UTG is pretty standard.

But that doesn’t mean your ranges should be linear. Just because I open JTs doesn’t mean I’m opening KJo. In fact, I fold ATo and sometimes KQo from UTG. Then I’ll play 89s and 9Ts from any position for any number of bets.

the point i was making is that a tag who sees you show down Q8s will no longer be playing as tight against you. normally he'd fold A8o to a standard lojack open range. if he sees you sd Q8s that means you're playing not just that hand, but many more hands and it makes A8o a 3b, which makes your life harder.

if the co (or hj, whichever that player was) were me, i'd be tossing lots of offsuit aces, possibly up to AJo to a standard hj tag opening range. if i see Q8s get shown down, i'd lower that a bit to A9o or A8o. it also makes KJo a 3b (i'd normally fold it), which you don't want if you're opening as loose as showing down q8s would indicate you're opening.

I think you're overestimating their willingness to adjust. Some will, a lot won't. I'm not going to adjust until I see they have. And just because they start opening wider doesn't mean they will play those added hands well postflop.

20/40 live 9 handed.

A super loose passive guy open limps UTG, A very good TAG raises in the SB, I have 44's in the BB. Is this a 3 bet even though the UTG will never fold pre and can be kinda sticky? I think the TAG has a pretty wide range here so I think 3 betting a lot of my continuing range makes sense.

Could you show us a stove so we can make an informed comment? I feel kind of lost guessing ranges that would lead to this conclusion.

I think it's much better to call and then raise favorable flops.

This is what I was thinking. If UTG will go away either pre flop or on the flop then a 3 bet is better I think.

I don’t mean this as a troll—do you see a bunch of guys limp UTG then fold to a 3bet?

No. It does happen though, especially with the super loose players. I think a call is better with 44's. I think 77's is were the three betting should start.

I think a lot do fold preflop. Both blinds are representing very strong ranges.

like guys limping UTG think about ranges

Well, I do...I occasionally limp UTG if I think the table is right for it, but if faced with unexpected aggression I will definitely fold for two more bets.

There are players who want to play a lot of hands for 1 bet. When things escalate they will muck their crappy hands. They aren't putting players on ranges, they just see that it's gonna cost them a lot more than they would like.

This happened last night from 3 times (two from the same player). I saw it! I'll take a picture next time.

I recently saw a player open-limp on the button in a $15/$30 game and then fold when the BB made it two bets. It blew my mind.

What bands do you limp UTG and what limits.

They are making a mistake by limping in the first place and then making a bigger mistake by folding in position after the raise.

Lol. I don't think you are fully appreciating this awe-inspiring moment.

yikes. no way it's a 3b pf there. the pr of that guy folding is small (<10% for sure) and bloating the pot makes him correct to tag along to beat your small pair post flop

and it makes you have to either bet awkwardly or check and give a free card to 4 potential overcards.

OBVIOUS play here is call the sb raise and raise favorable flops. the only "iffy" situation occurs when it's like J52 when it's likely you have the best hand but can't really stand a 3b from the sb AND you don't wanna give a 1 bet card getting 8:1 to a loose passive UTG.