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Old 05-24-2017, 12:34 PM   #1276
Bob148
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by rodeo View Post
The CO should call with a very wide range. And if I'm the CO and I know you're opening with A4o, I'll 3bet very widely and get to go HU with a slightly stronger range with position and dead money in the pot (which benefits me more than you).

You don't want to widen your pre flop opening range when you can almost guarantee that a player in position will call and will encourage others to call. On average, the pot is going to go off multiway. That means that you want to have a range of hands that is strong and plays well multiway. "Strong and plays well multiway" doesn't describe A4o.

The exception would be if the CO is really nitty and will fold to your raise often and the BTN won't adjust properly and the blinds are terrible. If those criteria are met, by all means go ahead and raise any AXo.

Attacking a reasonable CO post from OOP isn't something to be taken lightly.
Solid 3kth post yo.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:57 PM   #1277
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Solid 3kth post yo.


I'm on Tapatalk so I didn't even notice.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:21 PM   #1278
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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I'm on Tapatalk so I didn't even notice.
Solid 3001st post IMO.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:30 PM   #1279
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

live 20/40
Maniac 1 straddles UTG
Maniac 2 3-bets MP (range is roughly 60-70%)
Folds to me in SB and I 4-bet A9s (cap is 5 bets)

Last edited by SetofJacks; 05-24-2017 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:32 PM   #1280
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
live 20/40
Maniac 1 straddles UTG
Maniac 2 3-bets MP (range is roughly 60-70%)
Folds to me and I 4-bet A9s (cap is 5 bets)

Seems really standard

This is the type the advocates of A4o are talking about.

But here, we get it 3 ways in position with A9s vs a straddle and a psycho.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:36 PM   #1281
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
Seems really standard

This is the type the advocates of A4o are talking about.

But here, we get it 3 ways in position with A9s vs a straddle and a psycho.
Gah! sorry I meant to write "in SB", edited last post.
So we're out of position.

Also I expect Maniac 2 to cap his entire range, which is likely to include:
Any two suited cards
any two connected cards
T7o+
J7o+
Q8o+
K7o+
any pair
any ace
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:37 PM   #1282
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Still 4 betting, although I like it less
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:42 PM   #1283
SetofJacks
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

FWIW I think I'd fold A4o in this scenario whether in or out of position because to me it's not worth it even if it's ahead.
These guys also like to spaz flop and turn.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:19 AM   #1284
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
live 20/40
Maniac 1 straddles UTG
Maniac 2 3-bets MP (range is roughly 60-70%)
Folds to me in SB and I 4-bet A9s (cap is 5 bets)
Ya I'm happy to bloat the pot here, even OOP.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:18 PM   #1285
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
live 20/40
Maniac 1 straddles UTG
Maniac 2 3-bets MP (range is roughly 60-70%)
Folds to me in SB and I 4-bet A9s (cap is 5 bets)
Against those ranges, you kind of have to 4-bet in the SB, and then hate life when the flop comes KJ3 or Q76 or something.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:35 PM   #1286
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Against those ranges, you kind of have to 4-bet in the SB, and then hate life when the flop comes KJ3 or Q76 or something.
Agreed, but one of my friends who's trying to get better at LHE doesn't think a 4-bet is so clear, so I decided to post it here.
Results: KT7hhs flop (I have hearts)
I bet and both call
Turn 6s, I bet, V1 raises, V2 3!, I call, V1 4! and V2 caps
River 3s
V1 has 89, V2 has As8s
FML basically
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:50 PM   #1287
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I'm not betting the turn. But other than that, that's life.
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Old 05-27-2017, 07:50 PM   #1288
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Meh, I'm loving life in that game except for the variance part. Otb 4bet A4, sb if passed you have equity, depends on mainly how aggressive they are after the flop.
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Old 06-14-2017, 01:08 PM   #1289
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Super loose 20/40 game.
4 limpers to me on the button, I look down at J7o and...
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:30 PM   #1290
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
Super loose 20/40 game.
4 limpers to me on the button, I look down at J7o and...


Drop it like it's hot.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:33 PM   #1291
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by rodeo View Post
Drop it like it's hot.
J7o is a bad hand and I probably wouldn't play it except as a button open or defending the BB. I'd definitely play J7s here though.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:45 PM   #1292
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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J7o is a bad hand and I probably wouldn't play it except as a button open or defending the BB. I'd definitely play J7s here though.


I agree, which is why I would fold it.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:47 PM   #1293
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

What about these?
1. T7o
2. J8o
3. T8o
4. T9o
5. Q8o
6. Q9o
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:30 PM   #1294
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

The only one I give a second thought to is T9


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Old 06-15-2017, 10:20 PM   #1295
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
Super loose 20/40 game.
4 limpers to me on the button, I look down at J7o and...
I know you play well enough to beat the 20, why play against showdown monkeys with such a bad hand? Find a better spot imo.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:54 PM   #1296
SetofJacks
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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I know you play well enough to beat the 20, why play against showdown monkeys with such a bad hand? Find a better spot imo.
Good hands are hard to find =/
Surely you don't think I raised it?

I limped along because I like to play hands on the button against these people when I can get in cheaply in a multiway pot.
Made trips on the turn and got **** from the worst regular in the game (whose name starts with M).
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:42 AM   #1297
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

What you gotta realize is that limped pots are the gravy of poker competition. At least one of your opponents is making a mistake by open limping, and the rest are suspect. Think about what would happen if your opponents were better players: they would raise and you'd fold those hands listed above 100% of the time. Thus any +ev gained by playing these hands is unnecessary for keeping your long term winrate > or = 0 ev.

Now, I'm not saying to never over limp here. Just that you gotta realize how the ev is realized and where it's coming from in order to analyze these spots.

I'd call T9o, Q9o, and fold the rest. I don't think the other hands make strong pairs or profitable draws often enough to make them profitable.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:09 PM   #1298
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
Super loose 20/40 game.
4 limpers to me on the button, I look down at J7o and...


Fold like it's on fire. Seriously. It's still garbage.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:09 PM   #1299
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty View Post
J7o is a bad hand and I probably wouldn't play it except as a button open or defending the BB. I'd definitely play J7s here though.


Have to rip j7s from my cold dead hands here.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:10 PM   #1300
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
What about these?
1. T7o
2. J8o
3. T8o
4. T9o
5. Q8o
6. Q9o


I personally limp T9o and Q9o. But I can't fold Q9o
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