Pre flop check up posts. - Page 49 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

I had 2 weird hands yesterday.

The first card dealt to me is a T, and the dealer accidentally flips up my second card, which was another T. He replaces it with yet another T! UTG limps and I'm UTG+1 with TT. Fold or raise? This was a loose passive game where it was common for 5+ to see the flop even if someone raised in EP raised preflop. Had I thought a raise would push people out, then I still raise even with one T dead, but given the way the table was playing, I folded. Bad?

Later, I'm in LP after 3 limpers with AQo and one of the people folding accidentally flips up their Q7o as they fold. I don't like seeing the Q, but I raised anyway. OK?

Quote

03-27-2017 , 02:38 PM

#1202

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveopie

I think you should still play the TTs and should still raise. Your hand rates to be a favorite over the field so get your money in while ahead and then play appropriately post flop knowing the ten isn't coming.

I think overlimping AQ makes sense since it's not a made hand. I don't mind seeing a flop first. Maybe it's still a raise?

Quote

03-27-2017 , 02:49 PM

#1203

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob148

Either you're opening with loss leaders that are unprofitable preflop or you think you've found the optimal preflop 3 bet here? You can't have it both ways.

or he's just mashing buttons

Quote

03-27-2017 , 02:51 PM

#1204

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveopie

TT Hand I fold. If its going to be 6 ways in a huge pot with only one T left, unlikely to have TT hold up, just fold and move on

AQo i'm still raising, f them

Quote

03-28-2017 , 04:40 PM

#1205

SetofJacks

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,378

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveopie

I had the AQ hand happen to me recently and still raised.

I'd raise the TT also.

Quote

03-28-2017 , 07:08 PM

#1206

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Code:

PokerCruncher-Advanced-iPhone V.8.2.1

(Equity,  Win,  Tie)
Player 1:  22.5%  22.3%  0.58%  [ThTc]
Player 2:  13.8%  13.0%  1.70%  [??]
Player 3:  17.3%  16.2%  2.42%  {77-22, ATs-A2s, K8s+, QTs+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, A5o-A2o, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o}  [tighty BB second call]
Player 4:  15.4%  14.5%  2.05%  {TT-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K7o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o}  [generic megafish limp]
Player 5:  15.4%  14.4%  2.17%  {TT-22, ATs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, AJo-A2o, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o}
Player 6:  15.5%  14.5%  2.23%  {TT-22, ATs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, AJo-A2o, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o}

Board:  [? ? ? ? ?]
Deal To:  River
Dead Cards:  {Ts}

Monte Carlo Simulation: 250000 trials

Looks like we should still be raising it up.

Quote

03-28-2017 , 07:54 PM

#1207

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,869

I don't think in an early position simulation you can just assume that no one behind you who hasn't acted yet will be dealt big pairs, AK or AQ.

Quote

03-28-2017 , 10:39 PM

#1208

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Code:

PokerCruncher-Advanced-iPhone V.8.2.1

(Equity,  Win,  Tie)
Player 1:  22.5%  22.3%  0.58%  [ThTc]
Player 2:  13.8%  13.0%  1.70%  [??]
Player 3:  17.3%  16.2%  2.42%  {77-22, ATs-A2s, K8s+, QTs+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, A5o-A2o, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o}  [tighty BB second call]
Player 4:  15.4%  14.5%  2.05%  {TT-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A2o, K7o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o}  [generic megafish limp]
Player 5:  15.4%  14.4%  2.17%  {TT-22, ATs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, AJo-A2o, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o}
Player 6:  15.5%  14.5%  2.23%  {TT-22, ATs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, AJo-A2o, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o}

Board:  [? ? ? ? ?]
Deal To:  River
Dead Cards:  {Ts}

Monte Carlo Simulation: 250000 trials

Looks like we should still be raising it up.

AQ should still be raised as well. TTs is hurt slightly more equity wise but both are still big favorites over the limping ranges so it really doesn't matter until after the flop.

Quote

03-29-2017 , 01:53 AM

#1209

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't think in an early position simulation you can just assume that no one behind you who hasn't acted yet will be dealt big pairs, AK or AQ.

I'm surprised his range wasn't

V1

65o

V2

65o

V3

65o

V4

65o

TT. 100% equity

Raise it up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

03-29-2017 , 09:22 AM

#1210

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Mind the logic flaw. TT still has 11.3% eq against a limper and 8 unknown hands behind.

Quote

03-29-2017 , 01:49 PM

#1211

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Live 50

Unknown seemingly not-loose kid (roughly 40 hand sample) opens UTG 7 handed. All BTN -3 calls, BTN -2 calls, BTN - 1 calls. I've J

BTN.

Quote

03-29-2017 , 01:51 PM

#1212

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Live 50

Unknown not-loose kid opens UTG 7 handed. All BTN -3 calls, BTN -2 calls, BTN - 1 calls. I've J

BTN.

Call and like it.

Quote

03-29-2017 , 01:51 PM

#1213

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

Call and like it.

You forgot to mention liking the fact that I'm in a 50 game w/ a raise and 3 cold calls too

Quote

03-29-2017 , 01:52 PM

#1214

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

You forgot to mention liking the fact that I'm in a 50 game w/ a raise and 3 cold calls too

Not like. Love!

Quote

03-29-2017 , 01:55 PM

#1215

Bob148

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11,972

Nice seat. I'd fold the J8s and Q9s but I'd call KTs and QTs. J9s? Flip a coin imo.

Quote

03-30-2017 , 08:11 AM

#1216

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,654

Live 20...I have a tight image.

Loose passive limps, Tag/fish over limps, I am next to act in CO. The button and SB are very tight. The BB is a loose reg.

What do you do with 56s, JTo?

Quote

03-30-2017 , 09:06 AM

#1217

Bob148

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11,972

I'd call both.

Quote

03-30-2017 , 10:28 AM

#1218

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Mind the logic flaw. TT still has 11.3% eq against a limper and 8 unknown hands behind.

That's barely above EV

also, its going to be hard to play TT postflop vs 5-6 people, as it always is. With two T's in the mix, that's where we make our money, making a set vs garbage.

If I have AA, still raising if an A is exposed, but TT, eh

do you still raise 99, 88, 77

Do you still limp 44, 22

if one of those cards is exposed?

I'm guessing I'm folding JJ-22 and raising QQ-AA in this spot

Quote

03-30-2017 , 10:29 AM

#1219

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Live 50

Unknown seemingly not-loose kid (roughly 40 hand sample) opens UTG 7 handed. All BTN -3 calls, BTN -2 calls, BTN - 1 calls. I've J

BTN.

I'm calling, but I love suited garbage

Quote

03-30-2017 , 10:31 AM

#1220

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

TT should still win often enough at showdown. Still a 42% chance that no overs will come on the flop, for example.

99 may be a little dicey. No shot I limp the babies.

Quote

03-30-2017 , 10:33 AM

#1221

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

I think thats about right then.

JJ-AA insta raise

TT seems to be the bubble hand

22-88 are gone.

I like these logic puzzles that come up sometimes

Quote

03-30-2017 , 10:53 AM

#1222

daveopie

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,506

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

TT should still win often enough at showdown. Still a 42% chance that no overs will come on the flop, for example.

99 may be a little dicey. No shot I limp the babies.

I think you may be off by a line in the table. The table I just found says the odds for no overcard on the flop is 43.04% for JJ, 30.53% for TT, and 20.71% for 99.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_..._a_pocket_pair

Quote

03-30-2017 , 11:14 AM

#1223

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

You need no overs for 5 cards when you are playing 4-8 hold em.

Then you have the issue of have 5 cards from 2-9 on the board.

TT is going to be hard to win UI

Maybe even limp PF, and raise an all undercard flop?