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Old 02-04-2017, 03:49 PM   #1101
Garwin
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Haven't played 2/4+ on Stars for over a year due to downsing that sent me to the micros but all suited aces and QTo are profitable opens for me from HJ (filtered for .25c/.50c - 1$/2$).

87s is a small loser but I guess it's ok to play it for balance vs good hand readers. I'd fold K9o though.
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:34 PM   #1102
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickingWater View Post
I just revamped my 6h low limit ($2/4 and $3/6) opening standards from position 2 ("HJ"). Looking for about 22% RFI I came up with some hands using hot/cold equity that just intuitively I think are questionable:



QTo, A3s-A4s, 87s, K9o



In selecting the 22% I made slight adjustments in order to favor some of the suited connectors and pairs over non-suited holdings. What do you think about opening with the above hands from this "early" position?


Funny thing is that my default is to fold all of those from the HJ except 87s. If I were to play the others, I'd start with the suited aces.
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:03 PM   #1103
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Funny thing is that my default is to fold all of those from the HJ except 87s. If I were to play the others, I'd start with the suited aces.
Yeah. I think I like them better as CO opening hands.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:43 PM   #1104
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

6h $2/4

Hero in SB w/ J8

EP raises, HJ cold-calls, CO 3-bets, BT folds

Hero ...?

I expect tight BB will likely fold and everyone else already in will call. EP seems pretty standard player, HJ has played 3 of his 6 hands so far at the table so I know very little other than he CC's and shouldn't, CO plays over 50% of his hands and 14% PFR - probably not playing a weak hand here. BB is tight passive.

Easy fold?

What if I were in the BB?
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:24 PM   #1105
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Don't need to worry about any of the player reads here, this is one of the easiest folds ever.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:28 PM   #1106
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickingWater View Post
6h $2/4



Hero in SB w/ J8



EP raises, HJ cold-calls, CO 3-bets, BT folds



Hero ...?



I expect tight BB will likely fold and everyone else already in will call. EP seems pretty standard player, HJ has played 3 of his 6 hands so far at the table so I know very little other than he CC's and shouldn't, CO plays over 50% of his hands and 14% PFR - probably not playing a weak hand here. BB is tight passive.



Easy fold?



What if I were in the BB?


When I saw the preview I saw we had J8s in the small blind, knowing that we were facing 1 raise, and was going to post lol fold

Now I see the full thread and it's raise and 3 bet


My answer is now "come on man"


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Old 02-05-2017, 07:26 PM   #1107
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

UTG raise from knowledgeable TAG, what do you defend the BB with if it's passed to you?
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:41 AM   #1108
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

slightly more than twice their range
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:38 AM   #1109
KickingWater
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
When I saw the preview I saw we had J8s in the small blind, knowing that we were facing 1 raise, and was going to post lol fold

Now I see the full thread and it's raise and 3 bet


My answer is now "come on man"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, feeling a little sheepish now. I ran Equilab on this scenario after I posted it and it's not even close, even in the BB it's an easy fold. Suited cards don't even start to make it interesting until at least ATs+.

The good news is I did fold! I marked the hand to review it later because I was curious when it may be right to put money in from the blinds when the pot is raised but you're getting 3-4 opponents. I need to run scenarios with raisers and cold callers in front to get more comfortable/confident with them.
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:50 AM   #1110
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
slightly more than twice their range
Sounds like this is roughly the same as saying "a little better than 33% hot/cold equity vs. his range."

So, let's say there is a cold-caller or two between you...does this increase or decrease that range? My gut tells me it increases, and especially with hands that play well multi-way.
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:59 AM   #1111
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Sounds like this is roughly the same as saying "a little better than 33% hot/cold equity vs. his range."


NO. Having 33% hot cold is very easy to achieve.
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:14 AM   #1112
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickingWater View Post
I just revamped my 6h low limit ($2/4 and $3/6) opening standards from position 2 ("HJ"). Looking for about 22% RFI I came up with some hands using hot/cold equity that just intuitively I think are questionable:

QTo, A3s-A4s, 87s, K9o

In selecting the 22% I made slight adjustments in order to favor some of the suited connectors and pairs over non-suited holdings. What do you think about opening with the above hands from this "early" position?
I open QTo, KTo, A5s, 98s,
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:26 PM   #1113
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
Sounds like this is roughly the same as saying "a little better than 33% hot/cold equity vs. his range."


NO. Having 33% hot cold is very easy to achieve.
Okay. Makes sense. I was confusing equity% with range%. So if your EP opener's range is around 15%, and you would call with a little more than twice his range, you're calling with about your top 30% of hands. If he's real tight and would only open with 10%, you can call with top 20%.
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Old 02-06-2017, 03:56 PM   #1114
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickingWater View Post
6h $2/4

Hero in SB w/ J8

EP raises, HJ cold-calls, CO 3-bets, BT folds

Hero ...?

I expect tight BB will likely fold and everyone else already in will call. EP seems pretty standard player, HJ has played 3 of his 6 hands so far at the table so I know very little other than he CC's and shouldn't, CO plays over 50% of his hands and 14% PFR - probably not playing a weak hand here. BB is tight passive.

Easy fold?

What if I were in the BB?
I probably fold SB and call BB in this exact spot. J9s/JTs I probably call the SB.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:25 PM   #1115
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty View Post
I probably fold SB and call BB in this exact spot. J9s/JTs I probably call the SB.

those are all folds in the SB.

J8s is a fold in the BB as well

I can see an arguement for JTs in the BB calling two.
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:55 PM   #1116
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I call three w/87s and up in BB unless opponents tough.
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:57 PM   #1117
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Be tight in early position. Be tight against early position raises.
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:23 AM   #1118
KickingWater
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
those are all folds in the SB.

J8s is a fold in the BB as well

I can see an arguement for JTs in the BB calling two.
I can't see the argument after running J9s and JTs through the equity calculator in the scenario I posted. They don't perform much better than J8s in terms of hot/cold equity: J8s 20%; J9s 21%; JTs 22%.

On the other hand, ATs has 26%; KQs 27%; QJs 23% verses the 3 opponents I described. QJs still seems too weak while the other two seem worth playing.

But I note you are saying "calling two" from the BB, so getting 5:1 instead of the 4:1 in the re-raised pot with 3 opponents in my post from the BB - still not much different, is it?
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:33 PM   #1119
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

And the first raiser is all in, so you're closing the action?
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:41 PM   #1120
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickingWater View Post
I can't see the argument after running J9s and JTs through the equity calculator in the scenario I posted. They don't perform much better than J8s in terms of hot/cold equity: J8s 20%; J9s 21%; JTs 22%.

On the other hand, ATs has 26%; KQs 27%; QJs 23% verses the 3 opponents I described. QJs still seems too weak while the other two seem worth playing.

But I note you are saying "calling two" from the BB, so getting 5:1 instead of the 4:1 in the re-raised pot with 3 opponents in my post from the BB - still not much different, is it?
JTs makes about a billion more straights than J8s, and hot/cold doesn't account for all the extra bets you win when you make a straight. Still it's close and I don't think you would lose much dumping suited connectors for three bets in BB, even with a cold caller.

Edit: wait I said what? That was wrong, 4 ways with one bet already in, 20% equity is enough to call even if you know it's going to be capped. Again suited connectors have significantly more equity than hot cold indicates, so no brainer and a good spot even for 76s.

Last edited by DesertCat; 02-07-2017 at 04:50 PM. Reason: What was I thinking?
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:50 PM   #1121
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
4 ways with one bet already in, 20% equity is enough to call even if you know it's going to be capped.
If 20% is enough then aren't we also back to calling in the BB with J8? Or are you saying 20% equity plus having suited connectors is a call?
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:49 PM   #1122
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickingWater View Post
If 20% is enough then aren't we also back to calling in the BB with J8? Or are you saying 20% equity plus having suited connectors is a call?
It's probably a call, but you'd much rather have 87s.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:07 PM   #1123
KickingWater
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL View Post
And the first raiser is all in, so you're closing the action?
I can't help but sense you're trying to drive something home here, DougL, but it's driving over my head if so.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:18 PM   #1124
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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I can't help but sense you're trying to drive something home here, DougL, but it's driving over my head if so.
He's saying to weigh odds it will be capped by original raiser.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:45 PM   #1125
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
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He's saying to weigh odds it will be capped by original raiser.
Yeah. It could still be a call but you need to consider that there is an EP raiser still in the hand who can act. He's supposed to like his hand.
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