I agree with rodeo that A8o is a fold preflop there.

ATo would be the bottom of my range here against a normal range. I may tighten up a pip against a tighter range. I would be 3 betting any hand I play.

What would you guy's do with..As9s, 77s, KsJs? Do you go any lower?

Yup that's a 3 bet or fold spot.

Calling the SB first in is generally not good.

If you're going to have a SB cc range, A8o is a bad hand to have in it.

Make it 3 bets.

I'd go so far as to say that if you're going to have a small blind cold call range, that your opponent's range is or should be wide enough that 3 betting A8o preflop is profitable.

Fold preflop. Fold the flop.


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This is range work, there's one guy I play with regularly that I 3bet A8o from this spot.

Oddly, the cutoff for aces to 3bet with is virtually the same against many cutoff openers as it is against their button opens even though their button opening range is considerably higher. And it runs at about A8o.

This is likely too wide IMO. If you do some equity calcs you'll see that ATo is a good place to start 3 betting. The difference between ATo and A9o is more significant than you'd guess.

Also, I disagree with your idea that we draw the line in the same place for which Ax to 3 bet vs. CO and BTN. But I may be misunderstanding what you mean.

thank you everyone for the insightful discussion

A9s, KJs...have about 48% equity vs what I perceive a normal HJ open range. Why do you still choose to 3 bet these even though you're OOP? KQo has the same equity, but do you still 3 bet? What is the bottom of your range for these hands?

The range I give HJ is 55+ QTo+ KTo+ A8o+ Q9s+ K9s+ J9s+ A5s+ 9Ts+....does this sound right?

Thanks!

I'd put em on a slightly tighter range than that. I read "3 off the button" as the seat to the right of the HJ.

This is slightly off topic, but imo playing live makes you tend to not pay as much attention as you should to position. By "you" I mean just about all of us.

Live player poetry for seats - BTN, CO, HJ, FJ
In a 6m game you might label them - BTN, CO, MP, UTG

You see hands posted with people talking about HJ or FJ as if they were late position. When thinking about 3 betting light from the FJ, the poster is playing UTG in a 6m game and raising someone who opened from a seat earlier than exists in that game. That's UTG, UTG+1, or UTG+2 in a 9h game. So looking at the hand, "guy opens and I smash the raise in the FJ" seems different than "UTG+1 opens and I'm in middle position". The first leads to getting frisky with A9o and the second way of looking at it says the opening raise could be snug and we've got almost half of the non-blind players still to act.

To your point, BTN+3 is just UTG at a 6m table. Play accordingly.

I prefer to think of the seats in order from the button. When I was memorizing standard opening ranges I made flashcards and instead of using "btn, co, hj, etc" I used "1, 2, 3, etc" Button is 1, co is 2, hj is 3, etc. This way I can't confuse myself.

I agree.

I misread, I thought it was HJ. I would tighten up a pip. Does my HJ open range seem ok?

Here's an easy trick to figure out what range to 3 bet pre flop. Take the opener's range percentage and multiply it by 0.5. That's your 3 bet range. If that's too conservative for you, then multiply by 0.6, but don't go further than that.

There will be hands at the bottom of your 3 betting range that don't themselves technically have enough equity to 3 bet, but they won't bring down the value of your overall range enough to remove them and they provide value in other ways besides equity.

All the farjack and LoJack BS irritates me to no end. It's a regional thing. California to be exact and it's relative to nothing. In a perfect world we'd all go with what's universally accepted and there would be no confusion.

BTN, CO, HJ, MP, UTG2, UTG1, UTG, BB, SB

Agree. Could also just use BTN, BTN+1, etc. That makes 9h UTG = BTN +6.

Two loose passives limp ep, folded to me in SB, I have K2o

Several players limp, we have K2o in SB

Two loose passives limp in HJ and CO, I have K2s on the button.

I fold all 3

I do as well. Not even sure if these are even "close" decisions.

I think the third one is close if the blinds are tight.

1. Fold

2. Fold

3. Overlimp

Call, Call, raise.

Edit: The first two are the same situation, getting 7-1.

Last one is closer but I'm normally opening it on the button if folded to so i'm opening it vs. limpers. In my games i get to free card flop 90%. Can't remember what SSH says.

you are getting 7-1 with unsuited garbage OOP

by this logic you are calling with 100% of your hands here, thats too many

no thanks