Rodeo. Hands like T7 can flop gut shots and oesd.

I don't folding A4 because flopping TP is a c/f

Can't be a mistake to fold all those though.


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Depends on the level of competition. I can't imagine limping the first 2 to be profitable unless nearly everyone has no clue. The 3rd requires some pretty special circumstances as well. Fold all 3 by default.

I'd limp Qxs/J7s and think it's profitable if table is loose enough. I also limp 84s/73s on the BTN but think the profitability is questionable, RIO being the main concern.

The reason I made the post was to make a point that those hands are unplayable. If those hands are unplayable and their absolute value is greater than 84s, then that would make 84s unplayable as well.

FYP

Is there a way that you calculate that? I don't doubt you, it seems close just based on feel. I would probably be tempted to limp them all if I was in a great game. Just curious how one would go about doing the math.

Lol. Your WTSD was like 41 or something and mine was 50, but they just kept trying to bluff me.

There probably is a way to prove with math that 84s is a ****ty hand in multiway pots, but I don't know how. Just think about what the best case scenario is with that hand and how often the best case scenario occurs in reality.

Then answer these questions,

1. When 84s makes a straight on 567, how often is it the best hand? How often does it stay the best hand by the river?

2. When 84s makes a flush, how often is it the best hand? When it makes a flush on the flop, how often does it remain the best hand by the river?

There are more things to consider, but I'm too lazy to explain them all here.

When you make a flush or the board is 567 you win a ****ing lot




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Same thing happens when you open KTs UTG and you make a flush or the board is QJ9r, but you've completely missed the point.

Loose passive player raises UTG. Although he is loose, this raise from him is rare. All fold to small blind, who is a total novice and on previous deals had to ask the dealer how much to bet. He calls. I have 78 offsuit in the BB. Is this a small dunk call? Getting 5-1, closing the action, and with the clueless player in the SB?

What about if the SB had not called? I take it the 78 is now a fold, since I would be heads up with an UTG that rarely raises?

I'm playing around with twodimes and if UTG is passive enough that they would only raise big pairs I think its a fold. If you add some AK's into their range which loose passives may or may not raise, your equity is better but I don't think its enough. In reality though I probably call here most times but I don't think I should.

Yeah, I hear you. I was thinking along the same lines, and I folded. Then got majorly tilted when flop came 569 and the UTG and SB capped it on the flop. UTG had JJ and SB had AT. I think the fact he was such a novice he went 4 bets on that flop with AT high, illustrates why I should have called. Although maybe I am just being results oriented. But I think having a player like that in the pot, who does not know what he is doing or what your bets mean, adds a lot of value. If he had not been in the pot and it was only the UTG and I, I think the 78 is a fold.

I would call this because you get to play a pot with two bad players, one of whom sounds uber bad and you want to play with loose passives too. You are getting a good price and you can maximize profit if you hit and safely fold if not. You typically don't have to worry about either player doing anything too tricky. I think I would call it because of who you are playing this pot with. If the SB folds, I would fold this hand too.

The problem is that what if the flop comes something like 7xx which would be a more likely scenario. Do you really want to go 4 bets with your hand?

Ducky, the fact that some random hand would have flopped the world is no evidence that it was a good hand to play. That's just results bias talking to you. The fact that it would tilt you that a correct preflop fold (let's assume that) would tilt you? That's evidence of a real leak you can fix. We play the best we can, especially preflop. Sometimes we play good hands that lose. Sometimes we fold bad hands that would have won. This happens all the time and is standard. If standard things tilt you, you have a big leak that happens often. It is critical to fix this.

If you're someone who gets tilted by folding and then plays more hands because "that last one would have won", you're on the path to losing in the long run.

Later, you might realize that 87o or some other marginal hand is slightly profitable in a given spot. At that time, you'll see folding a hand that is a tiny bit profitable is a small mistake. You'll fix that mistake. However, folding hands that are barely profitable isn't a big leak, because it can't be. It is also a mistake few beginners make, because their biggest probable leak is playing too many hands.

I thought UTG had quite a tight range, so if the flop was 7xx and there was any action, I'd think he had me beat. Would check, and then if it was a bet and a call I'd be getting 8-1 and call to close the action. If board was otherwise pretty dry and I did not have other outs, I'd play it as a 5 out draw and closing the action at 8-1 figure that was close enough to the 9-1 that I need. If it had gone check-bet-raise then I would have just folded.

At least, I like to think this is what I'd do. It's easier for me to sit here and think all that through. If it had happened in real life I might have done something stupid, though. :-(

I hear you, Doug. And totally agree. I admit it bothered me more because I'd already gotten several big hands cracked. But beyond that because it was a hand I was unsure about. If I had folded 72 off suit and the flop had come 772, it wouldn't have bothered me. I'd have inwardly rolled my eyes, but I wouldn't be mad at myself. I get mad at myself when I find myself in situations where I don't know what to do. That happens a lot less than it did 5 years ago (or even 1 year ago), but it still happens a lot more than I'd like.

I fold 78o in the BB there.


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Six players limp in a 3/6 Saturday late night game. We have KJo in the sb. What's your move?

Call is the only option.


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Raise.... Just make sure you don't cbet blindly when you completely missed the flop.


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nevermind OP, just raise 100% of your hands in the SB because EQUITY

I just call.

yeah just call, raising is terrible.

What do you do with KQo? What do you do with KJs?