Think about the first step. If the BB never folds, then we just and put <random> in for him, as well. Then ask, if the 30% of the time that the SB gets a top 30% happens, how much does it suck with having the BTN and perfect absolute+relative position? The other 70% of the time, how happy are we to have <slightly better than random> vs. <random>x3?

10/20 LHE, getting late, whole table is either drunk or super tilted.

The hero is considered a TAG by anybody who is actually paying attention, which is 3% of the table.

Nine handed.

UTG w/ KJo

Not calling here, but any raise will run into one of two situations: multiple limp behinds (not happening lately due to table dynamic described above) or a 3! by one of four super LAGGY opponents to my left and their range is wide - keep in mind, the 3! will be called by a few players regardless, so the question is, is this hand worth playing OOP for 3 bets in a multiway pot looking to flop gold against a giant range of hands?

I'd fold.

Raise if you like money.

KJo utg is garbage.

Whoomp- there it is.

I challenge anyone who likes math to calculate the probability that one of the other 8 players at the table has jj+ ajso kqso or akso. You'll be shocked by the result.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using 2+2 Forums

To be fair you also need to calculate the probability that one kr more than one plYer will cold call you with hands we dominate like J-10, JQ, K-10. I still fold it in evenildly tough games but will prob open in super soft ones

FR. TAG opens EP and is cold called at two places. Do you defend BB with any suited cards?

I am discarding 32s, 72s, 93s, 52s etc. Do I need to be more selective?

Does the tag cbet too much on the flop? If yes, I'd fold some suited stuff. If no, I'd call more often. Free cards = $ with suited hands. The more free cards I expect, due to passivity from my opponents, the more hands I'll play. If they're really passive, then I think any two suited will do.

Rake matters some I'd think.

Can't figure if I'm the 3%, the super-LAG, or both. I was on your right, though.

Agree with JL here. Since I was in the game, it's a slam-dunk raise in this game at that time, with that lineup.

Having played in that game forever, 1) they are cc'ing with a lot worse than just JT, KT and dominated hands. J4s, T6s provide such a monstrous overlay (at 3&4 bets) it simply overrides being OOP. Just yesterday I was LAG 3! by the T4dd.

In a tougher game where you end up HU or 3-way OOP having paid 3 bets PF to be fighting for a 10 SB pot sucks ballz. I'll gladly take my chances with KJo in an 15-18 SB pot pre-flop.

10-handed $4/$8LHE table. One player 2 seats to your left has demonstrated that she knows how to build big pots not just with big hands but with big draws. 2 loud-mouthed, obnoxious, aggressive Indians in the 2 seats to your right, both have demonstrated willingness to raise and even 3-bet with hands like 44, 66, KJo, and when they're feeling a little rowdy even J2o (not a joke).

The 2 villains have shown postflop that they're willing to bet and raise with anything and laugh their heads off when they bet ace high and someone shows that they folded one pair.

Most of the villains at the table will not fold pre once they've limped in, even if it gets raised, 3-bet or capped behind them. 5-way capped or 6-way 3-bet pots are not unusual.

So here's the question: What are our general thoughts on trying to isolate one of the maniacs? Can we 3-bet lighter with hands like QJs, KTs, KJo, AXs, Axo? Does it matter how many people have limped in already and/or how many are left to possibly cold-call our 3-bet behind us?

Definitely.

I think I want >50% equity to isolate in that spot and I want hands that flop well. So stuff like QJs and KJo are better than A9o imo.

game dynamics don't suddenly make KJo UTG not garbage

here are a couple spots I thought were close. This is a 20/40 game that is playing much more passive than usual. At least 6 are seeing the flop and I would say 30% of the time it is getting raised pre. Behind me is a mix of Lag, Tag, and Loose passive players.

1) UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, I am next with Qd9d.

2) 3 limps, I am in HJ with 45s

i think raising or calling either are both ok, i doubt anyone has any math to convincingly say otherwise

I like the second spot more than the first. I don't think either is great without ideas like "these guys win the minimum and lose the maximum post flop", if that's somehow possible to do both.

1) They raise sometimes behind you, it seems. It is 20/40 and not 4/8. Limping while dominated is another concern -- if they're limping mostly big/mid suited connectors, you could actually be dominated by their range. You're in EP. If the game were 100% passive and terrible players post flop, suited Q + 2 gap, and whatever...

2) You actually have 4 people yet to act. You're in mid-ish position. You have a connector, but it is 5 high. If the people limping aren't playing <random> but are adding a lot of suited hands (see your own Q9s), then having the nut low FD is a concern.

Put a T with that Q or make the second hand 76s and let's talk.

call

call


but I love limping suited garbage, so there's that


looks like its going to be 5-6 ways with a decent suited hand.

Lets say its a typical 20/40 9 handed game. My UTG range is AJo+ KQo+ KJs+ JTs+ QJs+ ATs+ 77+

If the UTG folds, and I am next UTG+1, what hands should I add to my open range if any? Is my open range reasonable?

Seems fine. In the next seat you might add QJs, 66, and maybe A9s. You're saying typical 20/40, so not a murder's row of genius hand readers with three betting chips in hand. If there were, the first hand I'd think about not playing is the A9s.

KJo, ATo

66

These are not good hands utg 8 handed. They just aren't.

But suited, they are both raising hands, right? And we're not attacking the blinds from UTG, ever. It's great if everyone folds, but I don't think we expect it (at least not in the games I play). So, we expect to see a flop against some number of opponents. Which opponents do we want to see call? Do we fold to a re-raise? Do we c-bet into calling station(s)? How do we proceed when all undercards flop?

Do you ever open with ATo? I'm tempted to raise. And KJo I'm tempted to call. Especially if I'm card dead - KJo starts to look exceptional!

These are all things I wish I knew the answers to before I act pf. Any general rules? Or is it just a myriad of nested if statements?

I think so.
All of them imo.
Never.

Not without a decent pair or a strong draw.
Check call for one, or fold for two, unless the price is fantastic.
I open this hand from five spots off the button, but not six.
I wouldn't do this.

They aren't on my list, either. Still, if I looked left and saw one or two clear folds, they would be. With you that we're a seat early. Maybe if somebody just flat played a lot better than me, they'd play those hands.
+1
The post was about 20/40. I'm not limping KJo (and the few equivalent hands) in a mid-stakes game. If it is 4/8 and the game is super good, then you know, do what you do.

The whole card dead thing is hopefully a joke. We don't look for nice looking but pip light hands to open limp when card dead. We just never do this, if we're on the winning player side of the equation. You want a hand that's almost good enough to play to add? Don't do it by limping in EP. Don't ever do it, but especially not then.

Mason has been stopping by and talking about good online players being too aggressive three betting versus or raising in EP. I might not 100% agree on the particulars, but what we all agree on is this -- if you're going to add hands, do it in late position. Do it versus weakness (limpers) and not strength (tight raisers). Dicey, if you want to "add a marginal hand" do it on the button or in the CO vs a tight button.