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Old 08-09-2015, 05:19 PM   #426
TheHip41
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

A3>A8 here
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:37 PM   #427
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro7037 View Post
10/20 live 10 players:

Reads:
UTG+1: loose ultra-passive
UTG+2: also loose, not quite as passive. Regularly takes 3! to the face.
MP1: maniac, has been raising/3! almost the entire time. He's slowing down now that's his chips are disappearing.
SB: LAG, but knows how to raise PF. Saw him limp J5s UTG, A7o from MP. Also saw him raise 3 limps with A9o.

UTG+1, UTG+2, MP1 limp, SB raises, Hero is BB with A3o?? If fold, minimum Axo we call?
I think you should start by stoving this one.
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:43 AM   #428
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

4/8

couple bad limps, unknown raises on the button, I'm in the small blind with K6s, the big blind won't 3 bet without TT+.
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:20 PM   #429
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
4/8

couple bad limps, unknown raises on the button, I'm in the small blind with K6s, the big blind won't 3 bet without TT+.
I fold.
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:19 AM   #430
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

K6s is garbage. So you fold garbage to raises.
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:35 PM   #431
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Online $1/$2 6-max
UTG, a 70/10 player, limps
UTG+1, a 70/45 player, raises

What is our 3-betting range?

If we have a read that UTG+1 will triple-barrel 100% of his raising range, are we ever not showing down ace high? King high?
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:41 PM   #432
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Maybe not to the scariest of run outs. Otherwise I think you should be pretty showdown bound.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:46 AM   #433
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
If we have a read that UTG+1 will triple-barrel 100% of his raising range, are we ever not showing down ace high? King high?
So you have a range and you stipulate that 100% of that range will be bet on 3 streets, so you're telling us that you know the whole range from PF on. It sounds like an excellent time to pull out equilab and work out A, K, Q, and J high showdown equity on a bunch of runouts.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:00 PM   #434
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL View Post
So you have a range and you stipulate that 100% of that range will be bet on 3 streets, so you're telling us that you know the whole range from PF on. It sounds like an excellent time to pull out equilab and work out A, K, Q, and J high showdown equity on a bunch of runouts.
Wow. That was eye-opening.

I'll start with the case where UTG will fold if I 3-bet.

With AKo, if the board runs out 3579J (about the safest board I could come up with) we have 39% equity. Change AKo to A2o and it drops down to 25%. Change A2o to KQo and it drops to 16%.

A2o on a 2579J board changes our equity from 25% to 44%. A7o on that same board bumps it up to 57%. K7, Q7 and T7 don't change that equity much.

With AKo, the scariest board I could come up with is QJ986. AKo has only 22% equity on that board.



Now I'll look at UTG coming along for the ride. Let's face it, a 70/10 probably isn't going to just give up his limp just because someone 3-bet.

AKo now has 4% (!!!) equity against two 70% ranges on the QJ986 board. It has only 14% equity on the 3579J board. On QQ963 it has 26% equity. On QQ933 it has 20% equity (I was expecting it to have more equity on a double-paired board since it's harder for a villain to have a pair. Is it because we're chopping with more aces?)

A3o has 17% equity on the 3579J board. A7o has 31% equity.


I don't want to tl;dr this, but the bottom line is I really thought that 3-betting and showing down any ace or king would be profitable in this situation. Boy was I wrong.

I think it would be much safer to limit my 3-betting range to something like 66+, A8so+, K8so+, Q8so+, 89sc+, T8s1g+. That's probably conservative in that situation, but all of those hands should be reasonably easy to play postflop, where I'm showing down a pair of 8s or better unless either the board or the villains (or both) tell me I'm beat.

On top of that, if I spike a pair, especially a high pair, I'm probably putting in a raise along the way that both villains will call with a worse hand, so I'm probably going to win more when I win than I lose when I lose.

If I don't make a pair or a lot of equity by the turn I'm probably getting out.

Hope that made any sense at all.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:36 PM   #435
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

That exercise was well worth doing. Nice job.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:20 AM   #436
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Hero opens BTN in a 3 handed game, SB (whom we've seen cold calling AQo from the SB and 3 betting 22) three bets. So we have an exceedingly good idea of what his range is, which is basically pocket pairs and AK, maybe AQs. Huge fish cold calls BB (has a fold BB to steal stat of 2%, but we'll be fair and say he "only" has top 80% of hands, minus premiums like TT+ and AK). Are you four betting any of the following (hands w/ somewhere between 30 and 34 percent equity from my approximations):

1) A9s
2) AJo
3) 66
4) T9s
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:03 AM   #437
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

That's such a weird 3 betting range that I have no idea what to do so I'd just call all of those hands. I'd probably cap 99+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs, QJs.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:24 PM   #438
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Online $2/$4 6-max LHE. Table has been playing like it's straight out of the SSHE book.

Table is 5-handed. Hero is in SB. On this site the SB is 3/4 of the BB.

HJ raises, CO and BTN cold-call.

What are our calling and 3-betting ranges here?

We're very likely to get a 5-way pot but we're going to be completely out of position postflop. But at a table where the villains will call to the river if we flop big I think we have enough implied odds to call 1.25SB with pocket pairs, suited aces, suited kings and suited connectors down to 65s.

I'm not crazy about coldcalling with QJ, KJ, QT, KT, AT or even AJ because HJ has big cards in his range. Too likely to make an expensive second-best hand.

3-betting ATs+, AQ+ and TT+ is a no-brainer.

I'm not sure cold equity (i.e. plugging these hands into PokerStove) is appropriate - it's more, how many bets can we win if we nail the flop vs. what we have to invest pre.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:47 PM   #439
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Roughly I'd play top 30% + all pairs.

I'd call J9o and can't imagine folding AJ here.

Also I don't understand what it means to play striagjt out of a sshe book. A guy opened and best two players cold called, seems like soft game. Unless sshe book me mans bad
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:29 AM   #440
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke View Post
Roughly I'd play top 30% + all pairs.

I'd call J9o and can't imagine folding AJ here.

Also I don't understand what it means to play striagjt out of a sshe book. A guy opened and best two players cold called, seems like soft game. Unless sshe book me mans bad
When I say "Table is playing straight out of the SSHE book" I'm talking about Miller, Sklansky and Malmouth's book. In other words, preflop:
- villains are playing and even cold-calling almost any 2 suited pre,
- almost any 2 cards that are either both at least a 9 or can make a straight in some way,
- a raise or a 3-bet is always a strong hand.
postflop:
- calling to the river with any piece of the board or any draw
- a raise is always something that can beat top pair

So when you call pre with J9o here, what are you hoping to flop? You're only going to flop a J or 9 about 1 time in 3, and most of *those* times you're going to have one or more overcards to your pair, so i assume we're not just planning to make a pair and call down against 4 stationy villains. We *are* getting about 8 to 1 on our call, but is J9o going to make something it can go to the river with often enough to warrant that?

Not disagreeing, just asking what the plan is after the flop with that hand.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:30 AM   #441
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

You have a bunch of bad players, you are almost getting 9-1 and have a jack and a nine.
Try and flop a pair or a straight draw
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:27 PM   #442
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Similar situation to my last example:

Online $2/$4 6-max LHE. Table has been playing like it's straight out of the SSHE book.

Table is 5-handed. Hero is on BTN. On this site the SB is 3/4 of the BB. SB and BB have been playing over 50% if not well over 50% of their hands.

HJ raises, CO cold-calls.

What are our calling and 3-betting ranges here?

We're very likely to get a 5-way pot, we have great position and we're at the kind of table where villains will call to the river if we flop big. But we have less implied odds because we have to call two small bets rather than 1.25SB.

I think our increased expected value from having position more than outweighs the additional .75SB we have to put in the pot. This seems like an easy coldcall with pocket pairs, suited aces, suited kings and suited connectors down to 65s. Maybe I could add suited broadways and suited 1-gappers down to 75s as well. I don't think my postflop skills are up to the par where I could play as many hands as Jon_Locke profitably.

3-betting ATs+, AQ+ and TT+ is a no-brainer.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:45 PM   #443
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
This seems like an easy coldcall with pocket pairs, suited aces, suited kings and suited connectors down to 65s. Maybe I could add suited broadways and suited 1-gappers down to 75s as well. I don't think my postflop skills are up to the par where I could play as many hands as Jon_Locke profitably.

3-betting ATs+, AQ+ and TT+ is a no-brainer.

Thoughts?
I think you are playing more hands than I would. I wouldn't cold call anything and fold the worse hands that you mentioned (low suited cards and small pairs)
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:08 PM   #444
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

You have a serious case of preflop mubs. May want to have it checked out before it becomes terminal
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:13 AM   #445
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED! View Post
You have a serious case of preflop mubs. May want to have it checked out before it becomes terminal
So what are the factors to consider in calculating calling and raising/reraising ranges for each of the last 2 spots?
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Old 10-28-2015, 03:04 PM   #446
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

2/4 9 handed...

I'm starting out at 2/4 for the main reason that if I can't play well at the lowest, I don't have any business moving up at the moment

Only reads I have is #7 seat seeems to know what they're doing. Everyone else is just calling down with just ATC. There's very little preflop raising and have been seeing AKos, AKs, KK just being limped or called to the flop

1. JTos in MP with 4 limpers. I call.
It's 4:1 to me(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there) and I'm pretty confident there will be more callers behind me.

2. KJh in sb with 5 limpers. I raise.
Its' 5:1 I believe I have a good starting hand. Raising isn't going to push anyone out and they're going to go to the flop with me

Looking forward to replies, feel free to slap me down where I'm wrong.
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Old 10-28-2015, 03:14 PM   #447
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Online spots (2/4, 3/6, or 5/10):

CO opens, BTN cold-calls, we are in the sb. Blind structure is 1/2. Lets assume no reads (lolsamplesize).
1. Can we have a calling range? If so, which hands:
a. 22-66
b. A7-A9/KJo
c. T9s/J9s/Q9s/K9s/JTs/QTs/KTs
d. Axs
2. If not, which do we 3bet, which do we fold?

Thoughts on calling vs 3betting with decent equity hands? (e.g. 77-99, QJs/KJs)
We can trap the BTN for bets on favorable flops...

Live spot (15/30)
MP open limps to our direct right, we are in the hijack. What's the bottom of our iso-range? (T9s? 66? A9o?) Fold 55-, 98s-, QJo-?
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Old 10-28-2015, 03:16 PM   #448
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesOnRiver View Post
2/4 9 handed...

I'm starting out at 2/4 for the main reason that if I can't play well at the lowest, I don't have any business moving up at the moment

Only reads I have is #7 seat seeems to know what they're doing. Everyone else is just calling down with just ATC. There's very little preflop raising and have been seeing AKos, AKs, KK just being limped or called to the flop

1. JTos in MP with 4 limpers. I call.
It's 4:1 to me(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there) and I'm pretty confident there will be more callers behind me.

2. KJh in sb with 5 limpers. I raise.
Its' 5:1 I believe I have a good starting hand. Raising isn't going to push anyone out and they're going to go to the flop with me

Looking forward to replies, feel free to slap me down where I'm wrong.
I think both of these are fine.

JTo is a hugely overrated hand, as even when you flop "well" (think Q9x or something), there's often a flush draw present that devalues your hand. Given everyone is just limping and playing passive, though, you can pretty easily decide when you want money to go in, so this should be fine.

KJs is an instaraise against loose passives. Yes, it can suffer from domination issues (as hands like AK and QQ are going unraised preflop in a lot of spots), but this is made up by the fact that you just crush so much of their ranges. KJs can also make decent hands pretty easy (think Kxx or Jxx flop), but still has some nut potential as well. So feel free to build a pot pre, and then decide if you want to continue once the flop comes out. Rake is a bear at 2/4, so the best way to mitigate it is to play tight and value bet these people to death.

One exercise I'd suggest is using some software to help you calculate preflop equities (I use PokerCruncher for iOS). If I just arbitrarily give the 4 limpers in the 2nd example 60% ranges (removing AA and KK), and give the BB ATC, you'd see KJs is worth 23.6% equity. Even if we're pessimistic and give KJs 20% equity, it's still clearly a slam dunk value raise v 5 other players. I'd play around with that as you get a better understanding of what the average player is showing up with after limping in, and figuring out what hands have an equity edge.

You'll also see how hand values change based on the game type. For example, in this loose passive game, a hand like A9o is very mediocre, and I'd prefer a call with it from the SB after 4 limpers. You'd see that you'd be more justified in raising 98s or 33 than you would A9o in this spot, as nut potential becomes more valuable as the # of players in the pot increases.

Last edited by jdr0317; 10-28-2015 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 10-28-2015, 04:05 PM   #449
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

JTo is close to a fold here. I would snap limp in a 6-12 game but it's very tough at 2-4 where they are likely raking 1.5 big bets per hand. You pretty much have to play big pot or hands that will be massive equity favorite to have a shot.

That being said, I would probably still limp it becusse it's fun and if it is losing only fraction of a dollar.
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Old 10-28-2015, 04:51 PM   #450
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Last week, 20/40.

UTG raises all-in (exactly 8 chips). I'm UTG+1. After me is a loose passive, then a good tag, a bad lag, and a few bad regs. BB is a rock. I cold called AA.
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