Pre flop check up posts. - Page 118 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

8 handed. UTG plays 80% of hands. He open raises 60% and open limps the rest. His opening range in EP tends to be bigger cards but he will sometimes get out of line with a hand like 75o. He is pretty sticky post flop but will fold if he completely whiffed. He is a calling station post. He misses value. The players to my left are a mix of loose passives, LAGS, and TAGS. A three bet by me will sometimes get me HU but sometimes It'll end up 3 or 4 way.

UTG open raises, I am in the LJ.

1) ATo
2) KJs
3) 66's
4) A8s

You have a dream spot with position on the moron. Punish accordingly.

Quote

03-06-2023 , 12:11 PM

#2928

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

You have a dream spot with position on the moron. Punish accordingly.

I have a dream opponent but I am concerned with my earlier position. If I'm on the button and have tight blinds I feel great raising these.

Quote

03-07-2023 , 02:48 AM

#2929

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

8 handed family pot. I am in the BB. Are you raising any of these?

1) ATo
2) Q9s
3) 89s
4) 55"s

I don't raise any.

Quote

03-08-2023 , 11:06 AM

#2930

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

You have KTo on the button. Two tight/tricky and good playing post flop players limp . According to Small Stakes Hold 'em this should be a fold. The rational is that they could be limping with stronger hands and will punish you when you are dominated. They will bluff you off your hand. They will not chase with much weaker holding.

This makes a lot of sense to me, however, I can't imagine folding KTo on the button after limps. Maybe I have found a leak. I do get concerned that some advice is outdated much like HFAP is out dated.

What do you all think?

Quote

03-08-2023 , 11:10 AM

#2931

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

This is a hand from an old DC video.

Two tight players limp and we have J9s in the HJ. They say to fold. I wonder if this is more a factor of the tight limpers back then were really tight compared to these days. Again this is a hand I would be playing and often raising if the players behind me are tight. This video is probably over 12 years old.

Quote

03-08-2023 , 05:13 PM

#2932

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 609

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I have a dream opponent but I am concerned with my earlier position. If I'm on the button and have tight blinds I feel great raising these.

These hands are plenty strong you raise from your position as an open, so the players behind you shouldn't really be a concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

This seems like a pointless hypothetical because I can't imagine any tight, tricky, good players open limping. I guess if you airdropped me into an alternate universe where this happens, I would not fold KTo on the button. I'd probably limp along and take it one street at a time. There's no way that the villains can abuse you in the way the book suggests they will when you have position unless you are prone to make big mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

You'd have to pry this from my cold, dead hands.

Quote

03-09-2023 , 06:36 PM

#2933

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,569

Yeah agree with hard in the paint above

Quote

03-11-2023 , 03:21 AM

#2934

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,535

im an old nit and J9s is a slam dunk raise and KTo a slam dunk limp in those spots

Quote

03-11-2023 , 11:13 AM

#2935

Rooksx

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,498

Re the SSH KTo one - that would be a full ring game, no? It's conceivable that good players in early position players in 10-max would open-limp.

Quote

03-26-2023 , 12:11 AM

#2936

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Is open range from Abdul Jalib still valid?

Think it is 20/40+ online & live

https://www.lowlimitholdem.com/artic...ing_hands.html

Last edited by maka2184; 03-26-2023 at 12:12 AM. Reason: DonJuan & Bicyclekick #1 AINEC (●^ｏ^●）

Quote

04-01-2023 , 11:09 AM

#2937

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

8 handed. TAG opens UTG, a TAG/fish calls in HJ, A LAG/TAG 3 bets in the CO and it's folded to me on the button. The SB is super loose and agro pre. He'll fold his junk but will come along with anything half way decent. He is more likely to fold to a cap.

I am on the button.

AhTh
77's
QcJc

Quote

04-01-2023 , 11:30 AM

#2938

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,569

I cap them all

Quote

04-02-2023 , 03:20 AM

#2939

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,931

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

All of these are pretty close. I don’t mind any of our options. Except with QJs which is definitely a cap if we’re going to play to try to make the blinds fold axs and kxs of our suit, if it’s possible.

Quote

04-05-2023 , 11:39 AM

#2940

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

I think capping QJs here is more about deception and widening your capping range. It also creates a potential situation where you can check back the flop if needed. I don't think folding out an Ace or King should have much to do with it.

Quote

04-05-2023 , 11:43 AM

#2941

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I'm still undecided here. I suppose it's close enough to not matter much. If there had been one or two more callers in between, these would all be plays for me and I like the cap. In this situation I would cap AhJh, 88+ for sure.

Quote

04-05-2023 , 11:34 PM

#2942

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,931

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Our hand goes up a in value if when we make a big hand it is actually the best hand. You don’t consider equity denial when you make preflop decisions?

Quote

04-08-2023 , 08:02 PM

#2943

CactusCub

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I think this was written at a time when people limped KQ and KJs. If that's the case then it still applies. But if they are limping a lot more hands pre, folding would be slightly bad but not by much, KTo doesn't print money against tricky/good 5 handed

I can't imagine a good player limping hands in LHE, but that's another topic

Quote

04-15-2023 , 04:38 PM

#2944

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,858

I'm just doing an audit of my default range in 8 handed games. Here is my current range UTG. Assume it's not an extreme game either way. Some pots are multiway some are heads up etc.

66+ A8s+ KTs+ QTs+ JTs+ 89s+ AJo+ KQo+

I used to open 77's+ but 66's feel right to me. I see some good players opening A5s UTG. Maybe I'm a little tight starting at A8s there. 89s might be a little loose but it also feels right and widens my range.

Quote

05-05-2023 , 11:09 AM

#2945

AKQJ10

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I see some good players opening A5s UTG.

Does that have anything to do with NLHE theory where A5s is the king of preflop 4! and 5! semibluffs? (Eliminates an ace, too bad to call for its value, can make big draws.)

Obv little of that applies at LHE where no one is folding JJ to your four bet, but I can imagine a player with skill in both might overvalue specifically ace-five suited.

Quote

05-05-2023 , 07:23 PM

#2946

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,569

It’s pretty hard to construct an early open/4 bet range in a heads up pot, so I just don’t have one.

Quote

05-07-2023 , 09:42 AM

#2947

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Pfr range
66+ A8s+ KTs+ QTs+ JTs+ 89s+ AJo+ KQo+ seems fine. Used to play tighter in past clear loss of EV.

Not applicable since 6max but piranha explanation from WELL was great.

A5s UTG 8max think fine in LA if comparable to Commerce in normal games.

-Preflop-
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1.../#post44842247

-Postflop-
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...2&postcount=46

DonJuan sample
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=875

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

It’s pretty hard to construct an early open/4 bet range in a heads up pot, so I just don’t have one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

It’s pretty hard to construct an early open/4 bet range in a heads up pot, so I just don’t have one.

Think fine in general to not have open/4 bet range in normal games.

Per experiences online & live in Commerce Fish makes clear errors preflop so had 4 bet range that changed per game flow / perceived image.

Last edited by maka2184; 05-07-2023 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Commerce #1 AINEC (●^ｏ^●）