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Old 06-04-2021, 10:36 PM   #2576
Unguarded
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

15% is probably about right UTG 7-handed. All of those hands would be terrible to 3bet from any position against such a tight range. They are also too weak to open vs. a LJ. Cold-calling is even more terrible with LAGs behind you. They are exactly the type of player who will punish you the most for cold-calling trashy hands.
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Old 06-04-2021, 10:44 PM   #2577
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
7 handed 20/40 time game.

Lets say a TAG opens UTG. Give him a 15% range...Does that sound about right? How much tighter do we need to play if we are next to act compared to if it is folded to us on the button? Assume there are still one to two fairly laggy players to act behind us.

Would you 3 bet ATo, A9s, and 66's if next in? How about if we are on the button?

If the game is extremely loose and somewhat laggy would you possibly just call with some of your holdings if UTG+1? Like pocket pairs, 9Ts etc.
i dont think trying to find spots to play HU vs a TAG's strong range is a good idea
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:56 AM   #2578
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1 View Post
i dont think trying to find spots to play HU vs a TAG's strong range is a good idea
I'm not looking for spots to play against TAG's, I'm looking for the appropriate hands to play against them.

How does this range look assuming TAG opens UTG 7 handed and we are next to act?

3 bet

88+....Maybe 77's
AJo+
ATs+
KQs+
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Old 06-13-2021, 12:08 PM   #2579
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

20/40 7 handed time game.

Folded to me on the button. Both the SB and BB are super loose. The SB has a 3 bet range but often just calls...He called once with AKo. The BB has a 3 and 4 bet range in this scenario. The SB plays fairly straightforward post flop. The BB is very sticky and loves him some semi bluffs. Neither will donk flops.

In general I want to play hands against these two in position but I feel like maybe chopping off some of my range would be good.

Let me know if you would open these from the button.

6c8c
Kc5c
Q7o
98o
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Old 06-13-2021, 05:23 PM   #2580
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Yes
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:18 PM   #2581
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
I'm not looking for spots to play against TAG's, I'm looking for the appropriate hands to play against them.

How does this range look assuming TAG opens UTG 7 handed and we are next to act?

3 bet

88+....Maybe 77's
AJo+
ATs+
KQs+
id fold AJo
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:20 PM   #2582
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
20/40 7 handed time game.

Folded to me on the button. Both the SB and BB are super loose. The SB has a 3 bet range but often just calls...He called once with AKo. The BB has a 3 and 4 bet range in this scenario. The SB plays fairly straightforward post flop. The BB is very sticky and loves him some semi bluffs. Neither will donk flops.

In general I want to play hands against these two in position but I feel like maybe chopping off some of my range would be good.

Let me know if you would open these from the button.

6c8c
Kc5c
Q7o
98o
fold Q7o. i dunno about 98o. if i didnt feel confident id fold.

should open any suited queen or jack
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:25 PM   #2583
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1 View Post
fold Q7o. i dunno about 98o. if i didnt feel confident id fold.

should open any suited queen or jack
You fold q7 but open j2s?
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:28 AM   #2584
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
20/40 7 handed time game.

Folded to me on the button. Both the SB and BB are super loose. The SB has a 3 bet range but often just calls...He called once with AKo. The BB has a 3 and 4 bet range in this scenario. The SB plays fairly straightforward post flop. The BB is very sticky and loves him some semi bluffs. Neither will donk flops.

In general I want to play hands against these two in position but I feel like maybe chopping off some of my range would be good.

Let me know if you would open these from the button.

6c8c
Kc5c
Q7o
98o
Tightening up makes no sense against these players. It's true that we have less fold equity than normal. But we still get to play in position 100% of the time against bad players. The only time to tighten up would be against excellent players or reasonably good LAGs who 3bet a ton. All of those hands are opens. I open K5s in the HJ, 86s in the CO, 87o on the btn, and Q7o is the bottom of my btn range. It's strange that you are including K5s in the list, as it is way stronger than Q7o or 98o.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:37 AM   #2585
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
Tightening up makes no sense against these players. It's true that we have less fold equity than normal. But we still get to play in position 100% of the time against bad players. The only time to tighten up would be against excellent players or reasonably good LAGs who 3bet a ton. All of those hands are opens. I open K5s in the HJ, 86s in the CO, 87o on the btn, and Q7o is the bottom of my btn range. It's strange that you are including K5s in the list, as it is way stronger than Q7o or 98o.
I'm not sure why I included K5s. I usually open it in the CO.

I do open all those hands but have been running bad in this spot. Just checking to see if maybe I needed to dial it back.

I saw it mentioned that solvers open 27% in the HJ. I see K5s is in this range. Is this a situations where a solver is going to play perfectly post flop so it can play this many hands? You play better than I so you can open this many hands. I feel like I would get in trouble playing this many hands. The games I play in are extremely aggressive. I see some extremely laggy players do very well in these games but I also see some more tight TAGs also do well.

How low are you going with your suited gappers on the button? It seems at some point you are going to be taking the worse of it with 35s or 57s type hands.

Last edited by mongidig; 06-14-2021 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:41 AM   #2586
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Lets say it's folded to you in the HJ. The blinds are not very good TAG/fish regs. The CO and button are somewhat loose but will get out of a way of a raise.

How low are you going with pairs?

How low are you going with Axo?
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:41 PM   #2587
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I think I open all pairs and all suited aces. aT
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Old 06-15-2021, 01:50 PM   #2588
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
You fold q7 but open j2s?
J2s is better
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:50 PM   #2589
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
Lets say it's folded to you in the HJ. The blinds are not very good TAG/fish regs. The CO and button are somewhat loose but will get out of a way of a raise.

How low are you going with pairs?

How low are you going with Axo?
44 and A7
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:52 PM   #2590
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
20/40 7 handed time game.

Folded to me on the button. Both the SB and BB are super loose. The SB has a 3 bet range but often just calls...He called once with AKo. The BB has a 3 and 4 bet range in this scenario. The SB plays fairly straightforward post flop. The BB is very sticky and loves him some semi bluffs. Neither will donk flops.

In general I want to play hands against these two in position but I feel like maybe chopping off some of my range would be good.

Let me know if you would open these from the button.

6c8c
Kc5c
Q7o
98o
should add the K5s and 86s are no-brainer opens, not sure why you are even asking. you must be running really bad.

suited kings are underrated
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:52 PM   #2591
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
I'm not sure why I included K5s. I usually open it in the CO.

I do open all those hands but have been running bad in this spot. Just checking to see if maybe I needed to dial it back.

I saw it mentioned that solvers open 27% in the HJ. I see K5s is in this range. Is this a situations where a solver is going to play perfectly post flop so it can play this many hands? You play better than I so you can open this many hands. I feel like I would get in trouble playing this many hands. The games I play in are extremely aggressive. I see some extremely laggy players do very well in these games but I also see some more tight TAGs also do well.

How low are you going with your suited gappers on the button? It seems at some point you are going to be taking the worse of it with 35s or 57s type hands.
K5s in the HJ is the bottom of my suited kings range. I was mainly making the point that it is a significant winner from the BTN and CO in all situations. I open 64s on the BTN, but only open 53s in excellent conditions (supernit or loose-passive BB).
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:53 PM   #2592
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
Lets say it's folded to you in the HJ. The blinds are not very good TAG/fish regs. The CO and button are somewhat loose but will get out of a way of a raise.

How low are you going with pairs?

How low are you going with Axo?
22 and A7o
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:48 AM   #2593
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

8 handed game currently 7 handed. Game features two good pros, one reasonable TAG, 3 awful loose passives and one LAG.

Reasonable TAG opens UTG, two loose passives cold call, there is another loose passive in the BB who is probably calling 80% either 2 or 3 bets. Good pro is in the SB with KQo and….?
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Old 06-19-2021, 11:41 AM   #2594
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holmfries View Post
8 handed game currently 7 handed. Game features two good pros, one reasonable TAG, 3 awful loose passives and one LAG.

Reasonable TAG opens UTG, two loose passives cold call, there is another loose passive in the BB who is probably calling 80% either 2 or 3 bets. Good pro is in the SB with KQo and….?
Call.
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Old 06-19-2021, 02:26 PM   #2595
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I call too
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:51 PM   #2596
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I would also call with the brick wall of call in the BB.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:38 PM   #2597
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

So the solid pro three bet and then bet into the field on a A97r flop. Seems pretty bad, no?
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:10 AM   #2598
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

seems terribad.
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Old 06-23-2021, 06:10 PM   #2599
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

In the CO. Utg+1 and mp limp. Both loose passive preflop. What is our raising + limping range here. What if there were three limpers?
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Old 06-24-2021, 08:37 PM   #2600
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I think I would go wide here , especially if they are big street spewy.
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