These are all pre pandemic hands that I played. I'm preparing for my return to the game.

they dont have to win much to be playable here

probably breakeven to very very slightly +EV which means im playing the hand if for no other reason than it keeps my brain involved in the game.

It’s neither of those things though, it’s a losing play.

how do you know?

A7o A8o A9o ATo

After four limpers

All trash

maybe reword this to: how much dead money needs to be in the pot before you throw a small bet in preflop with your "trash"? i woudl assume if there was a cnote in the pot youd still play your "trash" A7o

The money isn’t dead though. You also have a hand that can’t make anything better than a marginal made hand 99% of the time. Throwing in money hoping to get lucky with a weak ace in a 5+ way pot is total fish behavior.

I fold A7o because it's trash. Why are you asking about hypotheticals when we already have a situation. 4 limps and it's your turn.


If you are in the SB after 5-6 call I would call there. But that's different that over limping with trash

If you’re going to limp in with trash at least make it sooted trash

After 4 limpers I would rather limp Q6s than A8o

Q6s is my favorite trash hand. I've won some big pots with that hand lol

The hip still here! Epic

The issue isn't the dead money in the pot and the price you appear to be getting; the isdue is that with many limpers in the pot there are a lot of horses to out run, and A7o (for example) just can't run very far or fast.

Subscribed to your twitch. I dont see any limit on there. I request you do a cash game session. Ill watch for sure

Been back to playing some live poker. I'm a little rusty. Haven't played regularly in a couple years. Anyway here's the preflop spot...

8 handed 4/8 half kill
Loose player UTG straddles, UTG+1 (VPIP 70-80%) calls, Folds to Hero on the button with AJo. SB and BB are not likely to raise

What do you do as Hero? Hero does not have the leg-up button. 5 bets is the cap per street.

Easy-peasy raise. blinds and straddler have any two cards at this point, and the 70-80%-VPIP caller is scarcely any narrower except for having a capped range. Hero will be last to act on all streets. Raise, and count the money you are printing.

Also...Does your play change if you have the leg-up?

Absolutely. We want to play rather tighter with a leg up than we do normally, because our winnings are going to be taxed by three quarters of a big bet. Call me a nit, but I might fold AJo here.

It's still an easy 3 bet. You have way too much hand against extreme wide ranges. You would love to get this to 3 handed in position. Even if you do have the leg up and have to kill you will still have good position in the CO.

It’s at least close whether or not you should fold ajo when you have the leg up. Surely the EV of AJo is probably less than the 8 dollars you have to pay for winning the hand. I just don’t see myself folding in-game.

It's half kill. Kill button pays 6 and the game plays 6/12 for the hand.

I think it is easy to overestimate the EV cost of having to post the kill. Yes, the pot you win is 0.75BB smaller than it would be, but you have to add back in that you get to put the money in live so it's not truly a .75 BB loss, it is some fraction of that. Someone can probably calculate the true EV cost (in a vacuum) of posting the kill, but then you also need to adjust for the fact that the greater your edge in the game, the less of an EV hit you take from having to post a blind, especially in a relatively good position. Add in the fact that many players poorly adjust to kill pots, and it's just not that bad IMO.

Of course, I think it is still appropriate to tighten up with the leg up, but I'd only cut out the really marginal stuff.

I agree with everyone that AJo without the leg-up is a raise. With the leg-up I believe in a half kill game it is still a raise. It's probably closer in a full kill game but I still probably don't fold. Posted this because myself and a friend were discussing this spot since she ran into it. She flatted and said it was because the hand plays poorly against multiple opponents. Which obviously her logic and conclusion seem to be contrary to each other.

Posting a blind in the CO doesn't cost the full value of the blind. We have an expectation in the hand dealt. Posting the kill and leaving the table without seeing your cards costs the full value.

Yes I understand this concept. At the very worst the $6 post is worth $5.25...7/8 of the $6 in dead money in an even-skill 8 handed game ignoring position. With skill edge and position in this scenario with table line up and game dynamics it's probably closer to $3.00-$4.00. So ultimately, is AJo in this scenario worth more than .5BB of expectation if I raise? I believe it is so I raise PF even with the leg-up.

How's my logic?