Bad and very loose aggressive pre and post player open limps UTG...He likes to donk the flop with all kinds of stuff. , It's folded to a solid TAG who raises in the LJ. I am next to act. The pots have usually been ending up 4-6 way. The final pots have been huge due to a lot of action and a lot of chasers. The TAG will often check the flop it it's MW and he missed. The BB plays every hand. The CO and Button are TAG/Fish/Regs.
I have 9s7s.
I saw a TAG who crushes the game make this call. I thought it was bad at the time but maybe this game has passed me by regarding what is correct pre flop. Maybe he thinks it was loose but he did it anyway. I was the solid TAG and had JJ's. He raised my flop bet on 752r. I had been running horribly and immediately put him on a set and just called down. He hit trip 7's on the turn. My scared passivity saved me some money. In fairness I didn't put him on the type of hand he had.
If I thought I was going to have the best absolute position against 2-3 bozos and a straightforward tag who will often check if he misses, I would very seriously consider calling 97s. I'd definitely call 98s and J9s. 97s is not a great hand and I don't think it's a slam dunk call by any means, but you want to play multi-way pots in position against bad players and this seems like a reasonable spot to take a flyer with a speculative hand.
Honestly I hate that spot in general if I don't have a really big hand.
If there hadn't been an early limper, I would just reraise any hand I'm going to play, buy how low I go depends on how good the other guy plays and how likely I am to get it hu.
If the raise had come early and then there was a cold caller (or preferably more than one), I'm going to tighten up my reraise range but call pretty wide. 97s may be too wide, but 98s is perfectly reasonable.
This exact spot is very tricky and I've never known how it should be best played. Being the first to cold call any raise just feels very weak and I rarely see players I respect making that play. But maybe some hands should be played this way, at least against villains who will not be able to read your narrow range well.
I am definitely interested in knowing what others think about this spot and what hands should call, if any.
Some people will raise a limp looser than they'd open raise for whatever bonkers reason. Unless you know that is the case, you should assume the raise is a materially stronger range than that player's opening range from that position. In theory, there may be some way to construct a cold call range, but I think the ev benefit of doing so has to be pretty marginal and it's much easier to just play 3b/fold with a tighter 3b range than you'd normally use, prioritizing hands that have more durable equity. So, basically, I'd lop off more offsuit hands and small pairs than suited hands.
EP limps, A tight LJ raises (This is AQ+, TT+), He has a tight limping range. There are two more callers, A tight nit SB 3 bets (This is QQ's+) I am in the BB.
What is the worst Ace suited hand you are calling?
What is the worst unsuited Ace you are calling?
What is the worst suited connector you are calling?
The LJ will probably only cap QQ's+. The SB will c bet 100%.
EP limps, A tight LJ raises (This is AQ+, TT+), He has a tight limping range. There are two more callers, A tight nit SB 3 bets (This is QQ's+) I am in the BB.
What is the worst Ace suited hand you are calling?
What is the worst unsuited Ace you are calling?
What is the worst suited connector you are calling?
The LJ will probably only cap QQ's+. The SB will c bet 100%.
I would probably call suited Ace-wheel, suited connectors down to 56s or so, and any two suited broadway cards. I would definitely call AKo but probably fold any other unsuited Ax hand if these people are really as tight as you claim.
EP open limps. He is loose and does open raise quite a bit. He seems to be very sticky post flop once he calls the flop. The blinds are average Tag/fish regs who don't over defend their blinds.
It's folded to me on the button. What are you doing with these?
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and over limps often.
I normally wouldn't 3 bet the HJ if it was heads up. I kind of feel like this might be a spot to widen my raising range and potentially create some dead money in position. Should I just call? Should I just fold?
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and over limps often.
I normally wouldn't 3 bet the HJ if it was heads up. I kind of feel like this might be a spot to widen my raising range and potentially create some dead money in position. Should I just call? Should I just fold?
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and over limps often.
I normally wouldn't 3 bet the HJ if it was heads up. I kind of feel like this might be a spot to widen my raising range and potentially create some dead money in position. Should I just call? Should I just fold?
I'd grumble and fold. I agree with KCK that Ace-wheel suited plays a lot better here. If the blinds were exceptionally loose I'd consider cold calling (and would potentially coldcall worse).
I'd grumble and fold. I agree with KCK that Ace-wheel suited plays a lot better here. If the blinds were exceptionally loose I'd consider cold calling (and would potentially coldcall worse).
lol pretty sure you confused NittyOldMan for KitCloudKicker because of bear avatars.
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and over limps often.
I normally wouldn't 3 bet the HJ if it was heads up. I kind of feel like this might be a spot to widen my raising range and potentially create some dead money in position. Should I just call? Should I just fold?
Your read on the HJ is doing all the heavy lifting here. His range is way too tight for you to get in there with a hand like A6s. But normally I'd be fistpump getting it in with A6s against two bad players and a post.
Your read on the HJ is doing all the heavy lifting here. His range is way too tight for you to get in there with a hand like A6s. But normally I'd be fistpump getting it in with A6s against two bad players and a post.
By "getting it in" are you calling or 3 betting?
In this spot against the tight raiser when do you consider the 3 bet? A8s? A9s?
It's folded to me in the HJ. The CO and Button are cold calling machines. They both chase to the river often. They both have a reasonable pre flop 3 bet range. I'd estimate there is a 25% chance that both fold if I raise. There is around a 50% chance at least one calls. The blinds are tight.
Should I be eliminating the bottom of my range here? What do you do with these?
It's folded to me in the HJ. The CO and Button are cold calling machines. They both chase to the river often. They both have a reasonable pre flop 3 bet range. I'd estimate there is a 25% chance that both fold if I raise. There is around a 50% chance at least one calls. The blinds are tight.
Should I be eliminating the bottom of my range here? What do you do with these?
