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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 08-05-2019, 12:29 PM   #1
NittyOldMan1
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wait for the turn?

heres a classic small stakes spot.

standard loose game with a 6 way raised pot being the norm

i limp 22 utg, 3 more limpers, SB raises, BB calls everyone else calls

flop A24 two hearts. SB bets, BB folds. raise now or wait for the turn?

Argument for raise now: value

Argument for wait for the turn: big pot, hand needs protection vs gutterballs.

Problem: what if the turn is bad?
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:59 PM   #2
ninefingershuffle
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Re: wait for the turn?

Fold pre, raise flop
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:15 AM   #3
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: wait for the turn?

Raise the flop. If the other 3 limpers fold, the pot going to the turn will be smaller by only 1 sb.

More often than not, at least one of the limpers behind you will call so you're making them pay more to chase their draws.

Plus, if a card that might complete a draw falls OTT, you'll be getting correct odds to see the river with 10 outs to beat a straight or a flush.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:24 AM   #4
checkraisdraw
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Re: wait for the turn?

He’s going to be checking the turn a lot seeing as he has a lot of underpairs to the ace in his range as well as a few stone cold bluffs that will give up. If he has an ace he’s paying you off regardless and may even 3bet and if he has 99’s-kk’s he might level himself into a call on brick turns and rivers.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:22 PM   #5
mongidig
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Re: wait for the turn?

When you flop a monster your goal should be to make as much money as possible which starts with a flop raise. If you delay you might get a raise in on the turn but you will be alerting the others that you are strong and you may not get paid off. Notice that you still may be able to raise the turn if the SB suspects you were raising a flush draw. People often call the flop raise and donk a safe turn. The SB may 3 bet the flop with a good Ace or two pair. You are going to lose a lot of customers on the turn but they will call with their one card gutters, pairs, etc on the flop. Your hand is strong but not invisible. Tend not to slow play in big pots with hands that are big but vulnerable.

Play it fast and try to win the max number of bets. If you massage the pot one bet at a time here you will get paid off more. If you slow play you often let your opponents off the hook early in the hand.

If you had described your game as 6+ players to the flop for one bet I could get on board for limping. Especially if people were sticky or overplay hands post. Getting raised here cuts into your implied odds and you have bad position.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:32 PM   #6
hesse113
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Re: wait for the turn?

I've read this board on and off for many years... dating back before 2010. The usual "long-time listener, first-time caller" thing. Two things stick in my memory, tips I've seen many times.

1.) Play small trips fast

2.) Slowplaying is generally not a good idea.

With those two items in mind, I would raise now. Couldn't the philosophy of "what if the turn is bad?" be applied to any situation in which you don't flop a full?
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:58 AM   #7
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: wait for the turn?

To add a point to the "what if the turn is bad" line of thought (and I've lost count of how many times I've said this):

if you flop a set and lose the hand, if you don't lose a lot of money, you played it wrong.

In the long run, the money you leave on the table by not playing a flopped set aggressively because the board looks dangerous will never be offset by the money you save by playing conservatively the times you lose.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:41 AM   #8
reaper6788
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Re: wait for the turn?

I'm all for open limping small pocket pairs in the loosest of games but 22 UTG is a bit too loose. If you have a read that this table pops off 6+ ways for only one bet 90% of the time fine.

Flop, raise! Make them pay now! Someone might get it in their head to 3 bet their flush draw or two pair and you can make the whole field pay 4.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:50 PM   #9
Dead.money.is.back
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Re: wait for the turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1 View Post
heres a classic small stakes spot.

standard loose game with a 6 way raised pot being the norm

i limp 22 utg, 3 more limpers, SB raises, BB calls everyone else calls

flop A24 two hearts. SB bets, BB folds. raise now or wait for the turn?

Argument for raise now: value

Argument for wait for the turn: big pot, hand needs protection vs gutterballs.

Problem: what if the turn is bad?

Raise Flop...heart comes on turn and kills action. Also if heart comes you might be raising worse hand...yea obviously u have outs but still.
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