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Old 12-29-2008, 01:06 AM   #26
SadDonkey
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36limited View Post
Doug, this is the subject type I was looking for; more of a 'general thoughts' type conversation. I do believe that if you looked up the word nit in the dictionary, there you would find my likeness. But, this is the exact type of strategy Lee Jones et. al., including Sklansky seem to recommend in their books, and players like Phil Gordon who preach "why play a bad hand when you can wait for a good one".

The A2s example that you threw out there, for instance, I would not even limp with from EP cause I certainly wouldn't want to play it for 2 or more bets. Here's my dilemma with this hand: I'm utg, and limp, 3 players limp as well, and a 4th makes it 2 and it's back to me. I already don't like it for 2 bets, but what's more, now the players after me may even make it 3 bets. Well, if I call this first raise, wth am I gonna do when it's 3-bet or capped to me? I'm already in for 2 and feel committed to the flop. So no, in ep, I would fold it. A9+s, however, and I feel more comfortable with it: I don't know why.

22+ in any position, and I will limp and call all raises: I HAVE to see that flop, and if I don't make a set, I'm out of there. BTW: with our casino offering a Bad-Beat Jackpot, NOBODY will fold a pair pf no matter how much it costs.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and the link, and I welcome your comments.
You're missing one of the more important parts of Doug's post, which is you know that the pot will be limped 6-8 ways. The standard low limit hold em player is a loose passive calling station; these are the sorts of players you can expect to raise rarely and will just try to see a flop. You'll find tons of these players at every table you ever sit down at. If you think 6-8 players will be in every hand, A2s offers great equity. Even with a late position raise, you shouldn't be too worried, because you can expect the BB to call, as will everyone else that already put in one bet. If you don't hit a piece of the flop, it's easy to get out.

It's natural to feel more comfortable with A9+s because they're far better hands
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:07 AM   #27
omega man
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rakeback sites

which are the best non US sites for rakeback deals for 1/2 and 2/4 limit.
By non US i mean no USA players allowed to play on them?
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:59 AM   #28
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

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Hey guys...which training site would be the best to join for FR LHE? tia
any help?
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:50 AM   #29
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Monte Carlo Jackpot

I know that some casinos don't allow it, but around here (Seattle) it's pretty common for another player who raised preflop to ask somebody to call them in order to see if their pocket pair will turn into quads for the Monte Carlo jackpot.

Is it just me or is this inviting bad play? I'm more than happy to take the pot preflop with a pocket pair or whatever I raised with, and move on to the next hand.

Tonight I was criticized several times for raising preflop by another player who wanted everyone to play like she does (she announced that she only raises preflop with pocket Aces). Unfortunately a couple of other players agreed with her saying that I'm probably missing out on Monte Carlo jackpots.

It's not that I care what other players think about my play - I raise preflop for the right reasons. I suppose I'm just sick of the Monte Carlo board. I'm sick of the way it changes play. I think I'm going to ignore it from now on; if something hits for me I'll be happy but I'll be equally happy to take down a pot without any callers if I raise preflop.

I have to wonder whether those people would cold call 3 bets preflop with something like King Ten suited just because it might turn into a royal? I actually see people call 4 bets (capped) with Ace-X suited when there's a possibility of a straight flush with something like Ace-deuce suited or even Ace-five suited.

Sorry I suppose I just wanted to rant a little bit. I'm sick and tired of the Monte Carlo board - or maybe I should be happy that it causes people to play so poorly? I'm averaging $15/hr at the local card room where I'm playing $3/$6 - not because I'm really good - but I'm sure it's because the average players are so bad...
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:57 PM   #30
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Re: Monte Carlo Jackpot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclain View Post
I know that some casinos don't allow it, but around here (Seattle) it's pretty common for another player who raised preflop to ask somebody to call them in order to see if their pocket pair will turn into quads for the Monte Carlo jackpot.

Is it just me or is this inviting bad play? I'm more than happy to take the pot preflop with a pocket pair or whatever I raised with, and move on to the next hand.

Tonight I was criticized several times for raising preflop by another player who wanted everyone to play like she does (she announced that she only raises preflop with pocket Aces). Unfortunately a couple of other players agreed with her saying that I'm probably missing out on Monte Carlo jackpots.

It's not that I care what other players think about my play - I raise preflop for the right reasons. I suppose I'm just sick of the Monte Carlo board. I'm sick of the way it changes play. I think I'm going to ignore it from now on; if something hits for me I'll be happy but I'll be equally happy to take down a pot without any callers if I raise preflop.

I have to wonder whether those people would cold call 3 bets preflop with something like King Ten suited just because it might turn into a royal? I actually see people call 4 bets (capped) with Ace-X suited when there's a possibility of a straight flush with something like Ace-deuce suited or even Ace-five suited.

Sorry I suppose I just wanted to rant a little bit. I'm sick and tired of the Monte Carlo board - or maybe I should be happy that it causes people to play so poorly? I'm averaging $15/hr at the local card room where I'm playing $3/$6 - not because I'm really good - but I'm sure it's because the average players are so bad...
Can you blame those people? They have a better chance of hitting a jackpot than they do of beating the game, so naturally they go for the jackpots. They're like me the few times that I played on a slot machine. On the slot machines I only cared about hitting a big jackpot, and I was never concerned about trying to win in the long run because I knew I couldn't.

Personally I'd be happy if the table has a lot of people that only care about hitting a jackpot. Every time someone has gotten upset at me for raising too much before the flop, that person has never been a good poker player. Out of curiosity, how much do their jackpots pay?
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:46 PM   #31
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

Sorry about this; I think I posted my question in the wrong place. That's what I get for playing until 2:00am and then posting frustrations on the web.

Quick response - the monte carlo jackpots range anywhere from $100 to about $400 for quads and straight flushes, and then $1000+ for royal flushes. The bad beat is usually somewhere between $30k - $40k. I normally play at The Caribbean in Kirkland, WA.
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:01 PM   #32
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclain View Post
Sorry about this; I think I posted my question in the wrong place. That's what I get for playing until 2:00am and then posting frustrations on the web.

Quick response - the monte carlo jackpots range anywhere from $100 to about $400 for quads and straight flushes, and then $1000+ for royal flushes. The bad beat is usually somewhere between $30k - $40k. I normally play at The Caribbean in Kirkland, WA.
I've played a fair bit at the Monte Carlo in Las Vegas, and their room features a high-hand jackpot like the one you describe. I think you know that the gripes you have are foolish, right?

Quote:
Is it just me or is this inviting bad play? I'm more than happy to take the pot preflop with a pocket pair or whatever I raised with, and move on to the next hand.
In a loose, low limit game you are not happy to just take the pot. You'd prefer that the world calls when you raise. Stealing pots is for different games, if your games are so tight/passive that you are constantly stealing the blinds, you are in a horrible game.

Also, how can you complain about a casino promotion that encourages bad play? You like money, right?

Quote:
Tonight I was criticized several times for raising preflop by another player who wanted everyone to play like she does (she announced that she only raises preflop with pocket Aces). Unfortunately a couple of other players agreed with her saying that I'm probably missing out on Monte Carlo jackpots.

It's not that I care what other players think about my play - I raise preflop for the right reasons. I suppose I'm just sick of the Monte Carlo board. I'm sick of the way it changes play. I think I'm going to ignore it from now on; if something hits for me I'll be happy but I'll be equally happy to take down a pot without any callers if I raise preflop.
I know this is frustration, but again, you want your opponents to play badly. FWIW, I think this promotion is the best kind that you can have. The jackpots are generally small, so that means that there aren't hundreds of thousands of dollars taken from the tables (like with a qauds over quads BBJ). When they win, people get the money at the table to gamble with. It encourages people to play loosely with bad hands, say 64s because those SF have a huge jackpot.

Getting lectured by a bad player should be a good thing for you. This will never stop, no matter what limits you eventually play. Many people work on funny responses or just ignore the comments. A friendly game is a good one; be sure that you don't tap on the glass here.

Quote:
I have to wonder whether those people would cold call 3 bets preflop with something like King Ten suited just because it might turn into a royal? I actually see people call 4 bets (capped) with Ace-X suited when there's a possibility of a straight flush with something like Ace-deuce suited or even Ace-five suited.
Given that you (wrongly) seem to be hoping people will fold when you raise, this probably doesn't seem great to you. If a guy will cold call KTs after I 3!, you should consider taking him to dinner later. Pay with his money.

May you never have to play in a game where people will respect your raises. You'll look at the game you describe here, fondly.
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:14 PM   #33
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36limited View Post
Doug, this is the subject type I was looking for; more of a 'general thoughts' type conversation. I do believe that if you looked up the word nit in the dictionary, there you would find my likeness. But, this is the exact type of strategy Lee Jones et. al., including Sklansky seem to recommend in their books, and players like Phil Gordon who preach "why play a bad hand when you can wait for a good one".

The A2s example that you threw out there, for instance, I would not even limp with from EP cause I certainly wouldn't want to play it for 2 or more bets. Here's my dilemma with this hand: I'm utg, and limp, 3 players limp as well, and a 4th makes it 2 and it's back to me. I already don't like it for 2 bets, but what's more, now the players after me may even make it 3 bets. Well, if I call this first raise, wth am I gonna do when it's 3-bet or capped to me? I'm already in for 2 and feel committed to the flop. So no, in ep, I would fold it. A9+s, however, and I feel more comfortable with it: I don't know why.

22+ in any position, and I will limp and call all raises: I HAVE to see that flop, and if I don't make a set, I'm out of there. BTW: with our casino offering a Bad-Beat Jackpot, NOBODY will fold a pair pf no matter how much it costs.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and the link, and I welcome your comments.
I think that SadDonkey nailed the response here. If you are in a game where there will not be a raise you can open up, even in early position. In a more aggressive game, hand selection becomes more difficult.

To pimp myself, look at this thread and the links.
Here's another post that I ranted.

It is certain that you can beat most loose games just by playing tighter than everyone else. There is no award for being the tightest player at the table. As you become the best player at the table there are a number of things that would make you want to play many more hands than the books for beginners recommend. In no particular order things like:

1) There are only going to be bad players in the pot, and I have a hand that can exploit their mistakes.
2) I know how many people are going to be in the pot and for how many bets, and I have a hand that likes the expected action.
3) I'm on the button, and I have a hand that is remotely near playable. I'm playing a lot of hands in late position, especially against bad players.

and so on

As you learn to play better, you'll start thinking about your hands relative to the situation you are going to be in. You think this instead of the absolute value of your hand versus a chart.

Seriously, in a soft live game, I'm playing 30% up to maybe 50% of my hands. I'm looking for excuses to be in pots with the fish. Read the link to the Ed Miller post in the first link.

Doug
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:40 AM   #34
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raising AKs

is it profitable to open/raise/3bet AKs on 2/4 limit?
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:54 AM   #35
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Re: raising AKs

Sure is. Also, don't forget the 4-bet and the cap also!! Any reason you wouldn't want to push your edge when you have such a nice starting hand as this?
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:04 AM   #36
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Re: raising AKs

Quote:
Originally Posted by stirro View Post
is it profitable to open/raise/3bet AKs on 2/4 limit?
It is always profitable to open/raise/3-bet or cap with AKs in any game at any limit. What would you do with AA or KK? ('cause it's the same answer)
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:56 PM   #37
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Re: raising AKs

I agree with both replies. Some much value in 3,4 or 5betting that hand.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:15 PM   #38
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Re: raising AKs

Asking this question shows a lack of understanding of the concept of EV+. This is THE core concept in the math part of LLHE. Please pull out your books and review this concept. IMO, you cannot progress into a good LLHE player until you have a firm grasp on the concept of EV. If you don't know what EV means, god help you. (Expected value.) Get SSHE and re-read until you get it.
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:38 PM   #39
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

I might be making the jump from 1/2 FR to 2/4 FR LHE exclusively on Stars...can I expect a good increase in player skill or is it going to be about the same?
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Old 12-31-2008, 04:05 PM   #40
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

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Originally Posted by Vincepcion View Post
I might be making the jump from 1/2 FR to 2/4 FR LHE exclusively on Stars...can I expect a good increase in player skill or is it going to be about the same?
I noticed that the games were actually looser. I think that some of the players know better how to play with aggression. To my mind, the key skills you need to think as you move up are position and aggression. You've already moved beyond out-tighting your opponents. Now, you have to start thinking about blind defense, isolation, and dealing with people who steal raise too much (re-stealing).

Mix in a 2/4 with your normal 1/2 tables and see what you think.
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:46 PM   #41
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

have tried to search but dont find, what kind of PTBB/100 does the best 5/10 fullring fixed players on stars have?
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:51 PM   #42
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

1/100 is going to be a very solid winrate in those games in large samples

imo very few of those guys win at that rate or at all - many of them are breakeven/losing and make money from grinding out the bonuses
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:08 PM   #43
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

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Originally Posted by BigBadBabar View Post
1/100 is going to be a very solid winrate in those games in large samples

imo very few of those guys win at that rate or at all - many of them are breakeven/losing and make money from grinding out the bonuses
ok, thx for the answer You dont happens to know what rb% supernova elite is for 5/10 fixed FR?
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:35 PM   #44
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

can't help there, sorry
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:41 PM   #45
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Re: ***Official Small Stakes Limit Halp/Noob/Wat Thread***

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Originally Posted by DougL View Post
I noticed that the games were actually looser. I think that some of the players know better how to play with aggression. To my mind, the key skills you need to think as you move up are position and aggression. You've already moved beyond out-tighting your opponents. Now, you have to start thinking about blind defense, isolation, and dealing with people who steal raise too much (re-stealing).

Mix in a 2/4 with your normal 1/2 tables and see what you think.
Thx bro
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:26 PM   #46
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2-4 limit variance

I,ve been playing alot of 6 handed 2-4 limit holdem over the last 3 months, mostly at full tilt, and i am down about $1200 or about 300 bb, is that a normal swing in the game? over the course of that time i've played about 114 hours, and had 62 winning sessions and 42 losing sessions, but the losses are usally much larger than the wins. is there hope for me or am i just a hopeless losing player?
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:30 PM   #47
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Re: 2-4 limit variance

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...thread-370815/
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:05 PM   #48
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Re: 2-4 limit variance

6m or FR?

Call me when you hit 500BB.

Call BBB at 1000.

Check the FAQ.

Serious answer, it is likely that a solid winning player would go through a 300BB+ downswing from time to time. The first thing is to establish that you're a winning player, and then you can start to determine if it is a downswing.

Don't miss out on a session reviews. I'd also seriously consider a coach.

Welcome to the forums, BTW.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:16 PM   #49
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Re: 2-4 limit variance

well, not quite sure if im a winning player yet, been playing for a few years, and have had some success, 0.50-1 and 1-2 limit, but now that i jumped to 2-4 all hell has broken lose. I wouldnt think 2-4 would be that much harder to beat, but maybe im wrong! and i always review my sessons with my father, who plays pretty well and a few friends of mine, the problem with them is they dont take it as serious as i do.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:33 PM   #50
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Re: 2-4 limit variance

Try to look for the January version of this thread next week.

Profits.
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