I would assume the player since he is grinding it out, but that may be a bad assumption? I'm not sure any stipulations in a porterhouse agreement would shock me anymore. People try to cover everything and that's good eye-mo.

yeah i mean if you get to play 3/6 at 5/10 and get all the vpp/rb that's a huge win for you, probably cancelling out the increased difficulty level

also to be honest if you're rolled for 3/6 you're not far from being rolled for 5/10 or at least game selecting amongst the two limits to begin with

It's .2BB less rake per hand? That sounds very high. They're taking about 2BB/100 from me at the 3/6. .2BBs/hand would mean they're giving me money.

I was talking about the pots you win. I think on FTP it's capped at $3/pot, and assuming the average pot you win is 7BBs and is hitting the cap, at 3/6 they're raking 0.5BB/pot, and at 5/10 they're raking 0.3BB/pot, so difference of 0.2BB.

I dunno, I'm an online newb. If someone can tell you how much they're paying in rake at each level...

Many would advocate that dodging multi-tablers online is a good thing due to their experience....but some believe their lack of focus on 1 particular table compensates for the experience? I multi table...on stars and I don't know if i should be seeking them or running? Any thoughts?

I predict this will go...poorly.

Without stats on the player it's pretty hard to say obviously. But as a rule of thumb if a dude is playing 6 tables he's probably not hemorrhaging money.

Most good+ players don't 1 table. Most people who play 14+ tables don't make > 0.5 BB/100 and don't make less than -0.2 BB/100 (for long). There are noteable exceptions both ways. Plenty of fish play a normal number of tables

You want a loose/passive fish in the seat on your right. Another on the seat on his right is a bonus. Tight/predictable players in the two seats on your left is a bonus. Having bad players in other seats makes the table softer. Seat selection > game selection > nothing.

Generally I don't seek out mass multitablers (they slow the game down and don't donate a lot). I'd tend to prefer notes/stats/results over knowing a player is on more than one table. The fact someone is on 3 tables doesn't mean a lot to me, unless they are HUHU tables.

It seems like there's always a prelude to a bad session. This post stems from another post, http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17.../#post12176487 , where in that session I took a couple of bad beats and then made a bad laydown.

After my laydown it sort of seemed like players started taking shots at me and I started folding hands that didn't get there or second pair when I raised pf.

I know there's no such thing as the domino effect and that hands are independent of each other and blah blah blah. But somehow it always seems like when things start going sour they just keep souring and many times the session just becomes a train wreck.

What do you do to keep yourself playing solid poker and keep your psyche positive and play good poker?

There is no domino effect but this seems to happen time after time after time. In 5 of my last 20 sessions I've lost more than 25 big bets.

sure the cards are independent, but the way players react to you isn't. they make their decisions based on their history with you; if you're the guy who is stuck a couple racks and making hero folds, then you can expect them to come after you a little harder than they usually would.

quit when you're losing. the donkeys will still be there tomorrow when you have a clear head. or at least take a dinner break, go for a walk along the water to your nearest orange julius or whatever, breathe in the fresh air and then come back and see if you're mentally ready again.

and dont worry 25 big bets is nothing man.

It is entirely possible to damage your image in such a way that the fish play well against you. Making hero folds and showing is a great way to start.

Have a short memory and a massive ego.

I'm only half-kidding. You need to be able to forget, or temporarily forget, any sort of negative variance you just experienced. Learn from the experience, of course, but stay away from the "the last time I did this" thinking. Also, you need to convince yourself of your skills beforehand, and revert to that baseline state whether you actually win or lose. Obviously, the goal isn't to delude yourself into thinking you're better than you are, but if you've picked your game such that you expect to win, keep expecting to win (plus/minus variance) throughout the session. Re-evaluate after you're away from the table, not while you're at the table.

I like to spew chips, then go outside and berate myself for ten minutes. It's amazing how well you can play after that.

Self-flaggelation as a means to avoid tilt. Interesting...

The rake on 2/4 caps at $4 but I havn't checked the others yet. I've beaten the rake and the tips at 2/4 but I was wondering if 3/6 4/8 was typically more profitable or if the rakes usually stay at 10% and cap at 1BB at each limit?

I won some tournaments recently so I am BR to try the higher limits if I want.

the highest limit that you have an edge.

does anyone here play 4/8 kill at the commerce? I just started playing these regularly last month and I've been on quite a downswing - some doubts are starting to creep into my head about the profitability of these games. It's really the highest limit I can play if I don't want to withdraw more money though (which is tied up in a brokerage).

the game is pretty easy - I have beaten Pokerstars small stakes and these games require less advanced skills - navigating big pots, maxing out loose/passives, etc. I really do think I'm playing tables more or less equivalent to the old .5/1 Party games 3-4 years back, the big change being more rational lines on the last 2 streets.

is it possible to crush the game with a 3+1, 4+1 drop? I'm really wondering if I'm just a small winner sometimes (hard to tell, I haven't even won yet lol). its insane to think how many racks are wiped off the table every 100 hands. anyone have a good estimate for hourly rate, BB/100, how long it took to get the roll to move to 8/16? thanks.

I play this game occasionally. I think it should be beatable. You may have to adjust to some very LAGGY play where people like to 3-bet and 4-bet the flop once there are 6+ people in.

Downswings are a part of poker. I did move from 4/8 (last year) to 8/16 (this year) and I am doing much better. I think the rake has much to do with it. You might try taking shots at the 8/16 (w/ 1/2 kill).

What is the average downswings for a 2/4 limit player. I have lost around 400 dollars in the past couple days. I would like to think that im a solid player i dont cold call raises much I play pretty tagish i would think. When I hit a hand i get full value from it. I dont really go on tilt in limit which surprises even me right now. It just seems that ive been getting no playable hands and when i do someone usually out draws me. I understand that this is part of the game but this is nuts. One session recently had i lost 60 bucks in about 2 hrs being basically blinded away. I dont think that loosening up my starting requirements is the right to combat this. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I dont want to sound like a whiny little kid but playing solid poker is costing me a lot of money.

Live or online? If live, what rake structure?

its online and i dont know was to do different. ive read sslhe several times and base my game around that

it's not noteworthy til 250-300+ bb, assuming you're a solid winning player. if you don't have much of or any winrate at all, you can expect more swings and heartburn.

welcome to the forums and please post hands and questions you have!

You mentioned you were getting max value from your hands. How are you doing when your hand is no good? Are you losing the minimum? This is just as important as getting max value from your winning hands, imo.

Post some hands so we can comment.

Here's some hardtruth (TM). If you're playing SSHE at 2/4 online and thinking that it plays like a 2/4 or 4/8 live game, you may not be a winning player. The concepts in SSHE are winning concepts; they'd have to be modified for online play. For example, I believe the SSHE has a range of hands to open limp, which is correct for most low-limit live games. Don't do this online.

The first question is, "are you a winning 2/4 online player." There is do dis there; it isn't an easy limit to beat. Then we can talk about downswings.

The competition is much softer at .5/1. Enough that you could be a winning player for a decent rate at .5/1 and not be able to break even at 2/4. Multitabling is another skill. It is one worth having.

Poker players are different, but I am sure SS poker like 4/8 and 3/6 are profitable. I play in the Bay Area at 3/6 mostly with no kill and a rake of $3+$1. I don't imagine Commerce or any other 3/6 or 4/8 games to be different wherever you play and I do pretty good at my 3/6 game regularly. Mostly, it's about value-betting turns and rivers, folding to players who obviously have the goods, and just creating really big pots where you have a great deal of equity. Downswings are a big part of the game; I've had nights where I went from a $300+ loser to only a $100 loser and nights where I've gone from a $160 loser to a $450 winner. I think embracing variance at these limits is fine; the few things I don't do at these limits is stay at tables where people aren't rebuying and where there are only a few players in each pot. Those tables are very difficult to be a solid winner at, even facing bad competition which you will do. I want to find a table where people other than me want to build a pot and people are willing to take out a few hundo and gamble; too many BBJ players just waiting for specific hands and not pushing action...I will leave this table quickly.

Anyway, just my two cent. I'm not sure about the advice of moving up to 8/16 just yet; if you are having trouble beating 4/8 and also don't want to(or can't) pad your bankroll with more money, playing a higher limit might make you play scared which is never good.

Hope you run goot.