As a side-point, FT SW used to be by far the best, but after the latest (5 lol) updates, I'm not so sure. I still am having major issues with PS timing out on me very frequently even if I cut it way back and only single table.

First time playing 2-4 limit live last night. The game was 7 handed most of the night and 8 handed for a short time. From what I've read on this forum the conditions were typical for this limit. Almost no preflop raising, lots of cold calling raises, calling down with anything (one guy called me down out of position with jack high)

I'm a solid winner at .50/1 full ring online and also 1/2 full ring online. I've messed around with 6 max lately online but not near enough hands to know if I'm a winning player. I have read and reread SSHE, and also have read Limit Hold 'em: Winning shorthanded strategies

Anyway I cashed out a couple dollars up after an hour and a half because I felt like I didn't know how to deal with people not folding. I know that you should bet for value so am I check folding the flop with nothing most of the time? It just seems too weak tight. Semi bluffing at this limit is almost worthless right? I would do auto c-bet on flop with ace high into 2 players who would call down with anything. Live 2-4 this is probably -EV no? I think I had a harder time applying SSHE also because it was 7 handed and played almost like a 6 max game. I also had a hard time keeping track of how much was in the pot. Any advice on this?

50/1 and 1/2 are not comparable to 2/4 live...try out 8/16 to 20/40 for a game you're more used to. you have no business playing 2/4.

anyways if you insist on playing this game then play straight out of SSHE and work on value betting relentlessly.

How does 4-8 play? My bankroll is not large enough to handle the swings of 8/16 or 20/40. And are .50/1 and 1/2 online really comparable to 8/16 and 20/40? That's so much more money playing live maybe I should just quit playing online.

They only let you play one table live. I'm still working on that...give me another six month working on the folks at AJ's.

C-betting A high into only one or two opponents probably ain't a mistake because a large portion of the time we have the best hand here. Against more opponents, ya, just value bet when you have something of value to bet. Usually pots will be big enough to see the turn with most any piece.

You will find the occasional spot to bluff, but most villains you play against will be calling stations; bluffing / semi-bluffing a calling station is pretty pointless.

Push your edges preflop with good hands / good multi-way hands. Pound the flop for value on good draws. Make nice river value bets vs opponents who will call with anything. Value value value.

As for counting size of pot. Before the dealer flops the flop, simply count up the number of players in the hand * number of bets = number of SB on the flop (at 2/4 rake is a killer so you'll probably have to subtract 2 SB from the pot size to account for this). For example 3 limpers, you raise, SB calls, BB calls, 2 of the 3 limpers call: that's 5 players * 2 bets + 1 bet from the folder - 2 bets for rake = 9 SB in the pot. On the flop, again just add in all the bets put in, and then when the dealer puts out the turn divide by 2 in order to calculate the BB in the pot. Continuing example, you bet the flop and get 2 callers means 9 SB + 3 SB = 12 SB divided by 2 = 6 BB at the start of the turn. Turn and river just add up bets as they go into the pot. Practice makes perfect, maybe try some of this when you're not even in the hand.

When you're comfortable, move up to higher limits where the rake isn't crushing you. If the rake is the same at your 2/4 and 4/8 games then I'd play 4/8 if you're fairly convinced you're a winning player.

Ggoodluck!G

4/8 same as 2/4

.5/1 online about equal to 20/40 live yes

you can only one table live though so there's probably more money online for a multitabler

i'd recommend saving up $500 and taking an aggressive shot at 8/16 live asap

Also rake is a huge toll at 2/4. Try shots at 4/8 or 8/16.

I'd say 2/4 online 6-max is about equal to 20/40 full ring norcal live. Don't know about full ring online 2/4... but realize that the common leaks in each game are different because the games play differently. So you just gotta figure out the leaks of your opponents and how to take advantage of them. Online leaks are different than live leaks.

Also disagree that 4/8 is same as 2/4 live. I grinded up every level live (2/4, 3/6, 6/12, 8/16, 20/40, 40/80) and found each level to have better players than the lower one without fail. I mean, it's not like 4/8 players are world beaters and 2/4 players suck, but there is a difference.

The basic rules are 10x the limit.

So an online 2/4 6max game plays like a 20/40 LHE game live.

A .25c/.50c online game plays like a live 2/4 LHE game.

I've found these 2 examples to be fairly accurate, and I play in CA.

I have recently started to play regularly at $1/$2 and $2/$4 tables online (10-handed), and soon started noticing that some usernames were always at the table, no matter what time of the day i entered. A little bit of a player search also showed to me that at least two of those "regulars" were playing at 7 or 8 tables at the same time!
I would like to ask the more experienced audience of 2+2: what is the maximum number of -low limit- tables you believe a human can handle at one time? Is it really possible for anyone to play 8 tables for several hours? Or is there something else going on that i am missing?

thanks all,
jd

Perfectly possible. I dont do it myself, but there are people who 16-24 table nl games.

Limit is a little harder to do that, because you have multiple decicions within a hand, but 8 tables doesnt sound undoable.

Thanks for the quick response!

I guess I can understand how you can continuously switch between windows, instantly evaluate the situation with one quick look and decide accordingly. How about keeping track of other players action though? I find it almost impossible to believe that you can, when in this mode, remember betting patterns of opponents, or even which one of them is a fish/maniac etc.
Perhaps the low-limit online game can be beaten even without keeping track of such info, just by playing your own cards correctly?

I usually play 16 table on fulltilt and 8 on european sites, so it's possible.

there are tons of 1/2 and 2/4 FR grinders... there are several here on 2p2 that grind out 18-24 tables of those limits looking to basically break even and "live" off of the bonuses as they strive for SNE on stars or are "RB pros" on other sites.

I agree mostly with this. There is a big difference in the types of leaks you see as you move up. Games like 2/4 - 4/8 have tons of players that do not truly understand the strength of their hand and definitely do not understand how to extract value properly. You will see much more donking and far less c/r'ing and overall general passivity. As you move up, your opponents aggression tends to ramp as well. Often though, that aggression is misguided.

The one thing I see in the 2/4 6m online games that I don't see in the 8/16 and 20/40 NoCal games is situational aggression. You don't often see a blind 3bet KJs/ATo/88, etc in the vs a LP open in the 20 game like you do in the 2/4 6m online game. You will also often see people open limping 77, KTs, etc in the HJ or even later in the live game which you don't see as often online.

yeah I used to do several hours at a time 24 tabling full ring limit, I really didn't enjoy it, now I stick to 6-8 tables generally

actually it took me awhile to work up to that, for a long time I couldn't even handle more than one table of the same game... you just get used to it but I think for pretty much everybody your game becomes more and more suboptimal as you add more tables

there are a bunch of players who just grind out FPPs/rakeback doing this and are essentially break even players otherwise

I have been playing a little 5/10 full ring online on FTP. I don't have much experience at the level so I stuck to one table. I did this after observation of the games made me notice players clearly making huge mistakes consistantly that I believe are explotiable. I have well over 600bb in my bankroll for that level and am hiring a coach on 2+2 to expand my knowledge and ability. But I don't plan on playing it long term until I am certain that I can beat it long term and I was wondering how people feel about the level of play? I feel like I can find more poor players at this level sometimes than lower levels, but that may be a coincidence of the very few times I played.

If you game select much harder at 5/T, it is possible that you'll find games as soft as a decent 2/4 game. Generally, 5/T players are more aware of the button labeled "raise" and have a slightly better idea when to push it. Also, there are plenty of times when there are few games and all the games have a low VP$IP. Right now there are 4 games going and 3/4 have VP$IP of 20% or lower.

If you feel you have the skills, a 600BB BR is more than big enough. That's a 1000 BB BR at 3/6, so you can afford some losses and still not have to worry about BR when you move down. Heck, you've got enough of a roll to take 10/20 shots if you want.

5/T Full Ring on Full Tilt? You might be lucky to find 2 games going, maybe 3 during peak hours.

Unless that is what you're looking for...?

Oh sorry, I missed the FTP thing. You almost have to play on PS to get game selection. Even there, once you start 4 tabling, you'll be in every game most of the time. If you really want to play, you need to be strong enough HUHU to game start vs. 5/T regs who will play short (a small pool).

hi sfetaz,

the online games, fullring included, are definitely harder compared to games at casinos (did you say you were a 10/20 reg at borg?). i would say 5/10 online in general will be significantly harder than 10/20 or 20/40 live. that being said, sure, there are still bad players and players making mistakes, and the games are beatable. i think looking for a coach is a good idea for sure. i don't think your sample size is meaningful in re: which limits are softest. in fact i'm sure that a random 1/2 game on full tilt would be softer than 5/10. in general each limit gets harder as you move up. i think if you're looking to shift some of your play to online you should consider starting at lower stakes, putting in some volume, and seeing how you do and what your comfort zone is.

bbb

I can either play 3/6 on my own or play 5/10 where my friend buys 40% of my action. I'll be effectively playing 3/6 either way. Will the difference in effective rake be significant enough to outweigh the difference in opponent strength?

I think this is going to depend on your relative skill level. If you are an expert, then it's probably worth it to play 5/10 to gain an extra 0.2BB less rake/hand. If you can beat 3/6 and are a dog in the 5/10 game, then obviously it doesn't matter what the effective rake is in the 5/10 game.

also, who gets the vpp, etc?