Just in case you have one of Phil's strategy books, I'd like to recommend a +EV play. Use the book as a door stop, sell it on Amazon, or give it to someone that you don't like. There are plenty of bad books out there that don't have a high profile pitch-man, however, these books are pretty high up on the scale of "you'd do better without having read this".

It is certainly possible with rake + BBJ + tips to make a game nearly unbeatable. Whether or not that is your problem is harder to know. I suspect that a raked 2/4 game with a BBJ drop would be tough to ever beat. OTOH, we've had some people around here beat some pretty obscenely raked games for decent amounts.

Doug

PS. Welcome aboard.

I am a NLHE player looking to get into 6max LHE because I have found some games that seem very beatable. My main problem so far is that I dont know what my opening ranges/3bet ranges should be.
I've seen opening range hand charts for NLHE. Is there anything similar for LHE that can give me an idea?

Example: UTG: Open 22+ and AJ+?

Is it similar to NLHE?

Any help/advice will help.

Thanks in advance.

I believe that there is a sticky in the small stakes short handed forum that has links to charts.

In most of the on-line LHE games being played now, I like's stox's recommendations. They can be used fr or short, too.

Oh yea, be sure you've got a handle on LHE post flop play. It's waaaay different than nl and you can drain a br pretty fast if you don't make the necessary adjustments.

Stox starting hand charts are very good. Make sure to pay attention to how differently small pairs and certain borderline big card hands play in LHE vs. NLHE.

Hi Doug,

Although I read through some Hellmuth books, I was not using that as advice (play top 10 pair only!). My main content comes from the 2+2 books. That said, the "don't play 2/4" Hellmuth advice came from a video I saw somewhere, perhaps on YouTube. (I didn't pay for the video.)

In regards to beating the 2/4 game, I get the feeling it is my playing rather than the game. I happened to be in a few card games in a row this past weekend and noticed a similar phenomena: namely, I would be good and win at the beginning -- say first 10 -25 hands -- and then "not see any cards" after that (see my bleeding comment in my original post for clarification on not seeing any cards) . Ultimately I'd lose. As I racked my brain on the way back home I realized that I think my starting hand selection is just too narrow for the types of games I was playing. I noticed a similar issue to mine by another poster named 36limited earlier in this thread. My guess is that he has the same issue despite his claim about proper hand selection. In addition, what I mentioned regarding the computer games is true: I mainly won on these. Perhaps a little poker knowledge can be dangerous and that the algorithm is easier than low limit games with live people.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Cheers,
thepokernewbie

To pimp myself, try this one on for size. If you follow none of the other links, look up the Ed Miller post in the first reply.

I think that the idea that you start up and lose over time is a case of observer bias. Any session where you don't blind of or lose more than the value of your first winning pot, you'll have a milestone of being ahead. It is memorable; you've scooped your first pot of the night and you're up. If you lose that session, you still have this memory of being up and happy to make your misery at losing all the worse.

1) Play hands that play well in the situation you're going to be in.
2) Don't make "advanced" plays that don't suit game conditions, i.e. semibluffing is mostly worthless.
3) Try to ignore how much you're up or down.

Play more and learn to win. Also, if you are willing, make a small deposit and play some micro-limits online. The average .1/.2 game will be tougher than your 2/4 live game, but the rake will be much lower as a % of the final pot. PM me if you want suggestions on a site or how to get started.

Doug

I am a 3.4bb/100 winner over 18k hands of 3/6
however I was looking through HEM today and apparently
I am -16.7bb/100 over 7600 hands in the blinds, both sb and bb.

So apparently I am doing something wrong. What can I do to plug this leak?

You're supposed to lose money out of the blinds. Anything better than -0.5BB/hand out of the big blind or -0.25BB/hand out of the small blind means you're doing better than the forced blind post.

but I am losing 16bb/100 out of the blinds, surely this is bad, or am I just not reading your post correctly?

0.5BB/hand = 50 BB/100
0.25BB/hand = 25 BB/100

(BTW, I use PokerTracker and not HEM, so I don't know if your "BB" is referring to big blinds or big bets. I am referring to big bets here.)

Think of it this way, every 100 hands in the blinds, 50 in the SB and 50 in the BB, you post 37.5 big bets. That's money that's a sunk cost. Plus you have to play out of position, which is a disadvantage. If you're only losing 16 big bets per 100, that means that your play has earned you 21.5 big bets per 100 hands. So, nice job.

Also, I'm sure someone with more online experience will be able to state more authoritatively that you are probably running well to have that high a win rate.

Ah ok thanks for clearing it up

I have no doubts that I am running uber god like atm.
i am still a winning player but my winrate has been
boosted by a sick upswing.

also in HEM bb/100 =! BB/100

Also what is a good sample size to know my true winrate?
thanks for the help guys

well, 10k hands is better than nothing. 25k is better than 10k. 50 is better than 25. 100k and now you're talking

I want to give Limit Holdem a shot. I first played limit holdem when I first learned poker and switched to NL and havnt looked back. However, I was wondering if I took a few shots - (4) @$100 per session, if $100 was decent. Is this a good idea to try and build up a roll?

Should I not plan on building a roll and just go with $100 and play some 2/4 and have some fun and put the remaining $300 back into my bank account?

Havnt played limit either in a while, any advice?

100 is 25 big bets which is the ideal buyin imo. don't play 2/4 tho, the rake is nearly unbeatable; if you can, take 200 and play 4/8, which should be pretty soft if you know how to play limit poker.

I know I play my best game sober. No drinks = good choices.

My question is this.... Can anyone profit more after having a few "sodas?"

eg: I play worse but my opponents think I play WAY worse so I profit more with top pair, etc.

I highly doubt it. First of all, this would require that your opponents are adjusting to your style of play which in most low stakes games, isn't the case. Secondly, if they are the type to make adjustments, they'll quickly pick up on the fact that while you may have had a few "sodas", you're still making decent decisions.

What is the standard for tipping at the lower limits after a blind steal or a heads up chop pot?

I usually don't tip in either of these spots, but the last few times I've gotten weird looks from 2 different dealers after I failed to.

I would guess that I see 75% of people at these limits tip in both these situations, but it just doesn't seem like you should be expected to.

Ok so I haven't been playing limit all that long, so maybe I'm missing something here.. but if it's folded to you on the button, the blinds sometimes get a little upset when you raise, and call you out for "chop blocking".

Sometimes it's in jest, but on occasion people actually huff and puff about it.

I actually saw someone fold A10s on the button tonight at 6/12 after asking the blinds if they wanted to chop!?!?!

I assume this phenomenon is reserved for the low limits, but I'm unsure. At any rate I pretty much auto raise every button because I'm not really there to make friends.

Imagine that, people getting upset when they have to make tough decisions with a random hand out of the blinds. I don't think you would hear any complaints about "chop blocking" if they had premium cards.

Almost worth raising ATC OTB for entertainment value!

any profit before rakeback is good
1 BB/100 would be nice
2 BB/100 would be very nice

This is a great limit to clear bonus and get RB.

Welcome to the forums. Don't worry about your English; it is fine.

Doug

This is a low limit phenomenon as you suggested. It does also matter what the rake structure is. In the Bay Area cardrooms, there's a $4 drop for 3/6 and 6/12, and a $5 drop for 8/16 and up. In other words, once there's a flop, $4 comes out of the pot. In the 3/6 game, it pretty much means there's no reason to try to steal the blinds. There's effectively no pot if it's folded to you on the button!

You occasionally even hear stories about the small blind completing in a 3/6 game. When that happens, he puts in $2, and the pot is.... $2.

If the table is otherwise good (loose), I'd pass up on some marginal steal hands with a drop instead of a rake. It keeps the table happy, and everyone wants to move on to the "real" hands. Your edge (position plus cards plus postflop play) is going to be really diminished by the drop if the house is taking out 20% of the pot to start with. I would not pass on hands that had substantial advantages like the ATs. YMMV.

If you're seeing this situation a lot, sure, go ahead and play your normal steal game. It won't last that long anyway, because presumably you're on the table change list.