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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 04-21-2010, 03:05 AM   #151
Tapirboy
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NigelSmith View Post
On murderface's blind stats:


He's not exactly "getting creamed" -- stats were in big blinds/100 rather than big bets, so -0.34BB/hand in the big blind, -0.18BB/hand in the small.
Do I run really freaking good in the blinds or something? In my current db I'm -0.178 and -0.071, about 22k hands each. Compared to that, he's getting creamed.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:20 AM   #152
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by GambleGamble View Post
Also my blind and steals seem "off" not sure if over defending or under defending blinds and overstealing from SB
Honestly this seems more or less fine for your stakes. You're probably understealing from the button some. Hard to tell if you're over- or under-stealing from the SB since it depends so much on who's to your left in these games; you can steal like mad from some players, but not from people who defend much at all because the rake is so ridiculous, it's easy for both of you to end up losing money.

Your defense numbers look fine except that I think you're coolcalling a lot in the SB when you should be threebetting. (I'm having kind of a hard time reading that, but the vast majority of SB defenses should be threeebets.)
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:26 AM   #153
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
Honestly this seems more or less fine for your stakes. You're probably understealing from the button some. Hard to tell if you're over- or under-stealing from the SB since it depends so much on who's to your left in these games; you can steal like mad from some players, but not from people who defend much at all because the rake is so ridiculous, it's easy for both of you to end up losing money.

Your defense numbers look fine except that I think you're coolcalling a lot in the SB when you should be threebetting. (I'm having kind of a hard time reading that, but the vast majority of SB defenses should be threeebets.)

I have seen a couple times on biggish split pots losing 1/2BB and it baffles me everytime..

...I tend to fold SB unless fitting in late position/button type hand spread? Mostly since I will be out of position the entire time.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:34 AM   #154
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by GambleGamble View Post
...I tend to fold SB unless fitting in late position/button type hand spread? Mostly since I will be out of position the entire time.
Pay less attention to your hand and more to how the player on your left defends his blind. There are plenty of players around who you can profitably raise with any two cards because they fold the majority of their blinds, or they fold to a continuation bet most of the time that they call. In a tight game, getting two of these guys to your left is a very good indicator of a profitable session.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:49 AM   #155
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
Pay less attention to your hand and more to how the player on your left defends his blind. There are plenty of players around who you can profitably raise with any two cards because they fold the majority of their blinds, or they fold to a continuation bet most of the time that they call. In a tight game, getting two of these guys to your left is a very good indicator of a profitable session.
OK gotcha

Im working on adjusting my HUD to show WTSD and the blind stealing/defense stats but I am new to it and I am still rolling the free trial for a like 55 days still. My free trial did get reset with the recent upgrade so no complaints.

If anyone feels like helping a newb with HUD configuration I appreciate it, I cant seem to find for one where I can even though I have before.


Edited to add: seems I figured out that I can reload the 4000lost hands when I had to delete PT3 in my processed hands file. Its my first 4000 or so hands since getting back into it so it should **** it all up

Last edited by GambleGamble; 04-21-2010 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:08 AM   #156
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Shu:

Wrt LP VPIP/PFR. I'm stealing ~30% in the CO and ~40% OTB and I'm 3! ~7% in each position.

Where should the bounce be coming from? I'm generally playing against defenders w/ FBBtS of 30-45% so I'm not sure how much I want to open up my ATS ranges. What's your 3!% in CO/BTN?
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:43 AM   #157
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
Do I run really freaking good in the blinds or something? In my current db I'm -0.178 and -0.071, about 22k hands each. Compared to that, he's getting creamed.
"Good" stats in the previous incarnation of this thread would be around -0.2 to -0.25BB/hand in the BB, -0.1 to -0.15BB/hand in the SB. Perhaps you simply play well from the blinds? If you didn't do a 3k milestone post, there's a topic suggestion...

To me, "creamed" kicks in when someone is losing almost as much as (or more than!) if they just folded every time. OP isn't in that situation, but could do better, so there's work to be done. But even if OP could get to your level that would save ~0.25BB/orbit, and I'd posit that a 5% reduction in WTSD% would save more than that. And working on WTSD% would also help in blind defense situations -- win/win.

All imo, ldo.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:04 AM   #158
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
Shu:

Wrt LP VPIP/PFR. I'm stealing ~30% in the CO and ~40% OTB and I'm 3! ~7% in each position.

Where should the bounce be coming from? I'm generally playing against defenders w/ FBBtS of 30-45% so I'm not sure how much I want to open up my ATS ranges. What's your 3!% in CO/BTN?
Stealing should certainly be higher (again, not for everyone reading this thread but for an experienced winning player like L2B), general guidelines I've seen in SSSH and 6m vids is at least 50% from the BTN. In general FR players are not as good at blind defense as 6maxers, so I think that argues for a higher %. The fact that you are likely to be one of the better players at your stakes argues for it to be even higher. I'm 60% at .5/1 RUSH and I don't think that's overdoing it. As discussed during hand swap I think an offsetting factor is the arguably good strategy of clicking 'quickfold' on a top 50% hand to move on to the next one rather than waiting to see if there is a steal opportunity

I'm guessing you could probably open up your LP over-limping range a bit also. You'd need to post hands, etc. but fundamentally your LP to EP VPIP & PFR ratio is flawed. I'm not saying mine is perfect, but if you look at Stox, Leader or other starting hand charts you'll find a much greater increase in % hands playable from UTG to BTN than what your stats show.
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:31 PM   #159
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by OziBattler View Post
i think im in need of a stats checkup. im trying figure out why 2/4 and 3/6 are causing me problems in the way 1/2 and 0.5/1 arent. theres more reg on reg action and in my experience ALOT more Checkraising at 2/4 and 3/6 and more lighter calldowns in said reg on reg action which i partake in selectively.

this is pretty much all playing 15-24 tables and is filtered for > 6 players at limits 0.5/1 to 3/6. theres a few things in there that im not totally happy with (eg W2SD) but feel free to point everything out anyway.

theres a crapload of reports in HEM so i just grabbed these. if theres any others i should do lemme know. ty.

I read this post like a week ago but couldn't reply due to being ban. The main problem I see is you not stealing enough. you can steal in co to 35%, Btn 65%, and SB 85%. Once you get that down your win rate would increase at least .5/BB. one thing I also notice is your turn c-bet is 10% lower then normal this could be due to taking passive line like check turn and call river. or not two barrel your non showdown hands enough. my assumption for this is your higher wtsd 38% and lower w%wsf. Also you should 3 bet more in later position try to get it up to 7-8%.

With defending I call any two from the BB when SS steal reason due you have position so you control the pot size. Work with floating and pure bluffing more.

It is tough to pay attention when you playing a lot of tables just keep working at it. I am doing this to make it up to all the time I didn't post advice in the forum and helping out.



Last edited by DonJuan; 04-21-2010 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:53 AM   #160
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuinthehouse View Post
L2B you are too nitty in late position imo, your VPIP/PFR does not increase across position as fast as it should, your are too good to play so few hands from late position (if you were less experienced the answer would be to knock some hands out of your EP ranges). Stats from my last 20k hands of .5/1 Rush are below:

Position VPIP% PFR% UO PFR (steal)%
1) button 26.6 22.9 60.4
2) cutoff 22.3 19.6 40.7
3) mp1 18.5 17.1 26.6
4) mp2 14.6 13.7 18.8
5) mp3 13.8 12.8 14.4
6) ep1 11.3 10.4 11.1
7) ep2 9.6 7.8 7.8
8) small blind 28.2 16.9 76.8
9) big blind 37.5 8.9 na

Note from UTG you play a couple more %, which is fine, next 3 positions are virtually the same, hopefully good for both of us, but the HJ, CO and btn gaps are 3, 4, and 8%.

You can argue I'm not good so you don't want to aspire to my stats, but if you take a look at Stox opening ranges, he's at about 7% UTG and 40% OTB, a factor of 6, you are at 11% UTG and 40% otb, a factor of 4.
I have a low steal pct, because i think that stealing against a lag isn't profitable. Am i wrong?
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:05 AM   #161
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

I know part of my problem:

Hand Folded Times %
AA 1 60 2%
KK 0 80 0%
QQ 3 63 5%
JJ 7 62 11%
TT 10 54 19%
99 13 59 22%
88 19 56 34%
77 23 46 50%
66 29 50 58%
55 32 55 58%
44 30 58 52%
33 55 66 83%
22 29 46 63%

Im clearly holding onto big pairs too much, small sample size but still I have never folded KK and only folded AA once and QQ 3 times, just donking off money knowing I am beat... I know they are showdown hands but come on GG step your game up (personal pep talk)
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:33 PM   #162
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

On the graph section of PT my all in EV is way above my actual BB won line, does that mean I'm not value betting my hands enough?
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:19 PM   #163
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Tosh View Post
On the graph section of PT my all in EV is way above my actual BB won line, does that mean I'm not value betting my hands enough?
Allin EV is essentially meaningless in limit. I suppose a big difference either way might mean you tend to play without sufficient chips on the table.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:23 PM   #164
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
Allin EV is essentially meaningless in limit. I suppose a big difference either way might mean you tend to play without sufficient chips on the table.
I have literally never been all-in in a limit game so it can't mean that. I thought it was something to do with the expected value you got from your hands on average.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:39 PM   #165
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Tosh View Post
I have literally never been all-in in a limit game so it can't mean that. I thought it was something to do with the expected value you got from your hands on average.
I that case, presumably your opponents have been all in a lot (good game selection) and you're running good when they are.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:30 AM   #166
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Been another 20k, think i've rusted to the point i need a new pitstop



Old stats -


New stats -



Quote:
Originally Posted by JBJ
You're only c-betting the flop 88% of the time, which seems really low. Are you just in a ton of 4-way+ pots with bad people, are you checking and giving up too quickly, etc.?
Upped it a bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by prsfr_cain
It looks like you are defending your SB 35% of the time, but only 3!-ing at 7%. That's too much passive defense, letting in the BB for cheap. Tighten up more and, if you are going to defend, do it with a 3! to knock out the BB and get dead money in the pot.
Done i think

Quote:
You seem to defend your sb too much. I would say 75-85% is ideal. Your ATS is too low, especially from the sb. SB ATS should be > 50% imo. And > 40% from BTN. You go to showdown way too much. There is no set number for that, but it should be in the 30s. Don't be so stubborn
Wow i didn't realize how much my ATS has actually decreased since you said this. How many BB/100 leak is my low ATS?


As usual any help is appreciated
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:48 PM   #167
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

although i cant explain why my AF has gone down so much
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:53 PM   #168
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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although i cant explain why my AF has gone down so much
Your overall AF went from 1.26 to 1.45, so it did increase.

You do need to think about what your stealing range is from the CO and BTN. It does need to be a lot higher, like mid to upper 30s at least I think.

I think you are defending from the SB too much still.

C-Bet on the flop % is better, but I think it could still be higher, unless you are constantly in 4+ way pots when you raise.

Your 3-bet percentage is a tick low I think. It appears you are cold-calling slightly more than you did before. I think there is a range of hands you can be 3-betting that you are currently cold calling.

Edit: Let me throw out a range of hands that may be on the "border" for you. What are you doing with hands like {77-99, A9s-AJs, ATo-AJo, KJo+, KQs, JTs-98s} in late position against an MP-LP raiser?
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:58 PM   #169
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by NigelSmith View Post
OP isn't in that situation, but could do better, so there's work to be done. But even if OP could get to your level that would save ~0.25BB/orbit, and I'd posit that a 5% reduction in WTSD% would save more than that. And working on WTSD% would also help in blind defense situations -- win/win.

All imo, ldo.
I'm curious about how to reduce wtsd, is it just simply folding more when I should know I'm beat? Would it be worth my while to go over hands that went to showdown with the criteria of only where I lost or should I be looking at all hands.

tbh, I have really been struggling with the concept of showdown value of hands ( is this even applicable to my wtsd, over-valueing hands??? ) - is this a good topic for an issue specific review?
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:08 PM   #170
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

any/all advice welcome. Still trying to break out of 3/6

- still uncomfortable in the blinds (specifically in bvb in the sb).
- I don't feel I showdown my ace highs enough, specifically HU IP
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:37 PM   #171
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tereg View Post

Edit: Let me throw out a range of hands that may be on the "border" for you. What are you doing with hands like {77-99, A9s-AJs, ATo-AJo, KJo+, KQs, JTs-98s} in late position against an MP-LP raiser?

Raise, Fold-Raise AJs, Raise AJo, Fold-Raise KQo+, Raise, Fold
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:45 AM   #172
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Searix View Post
Raise, Fold-Raise AJs, Raise AJo, Fold-Raise KQo+, Raise, Fold
Raise, Raise-Raise, Raise-Raise, Raise, Raise, Raise-Raise

Last edited by Pid Koker; 04-29-2010 at 02:53 AM. Reason: depending on who raised, i guess, sometimes, whatever
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:52 AM   #173
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by murderface View Post
I'm curious about how to reduce wtsd, is it just simply folding more when I should know I'm beat? Would it be worth my while to go over hands that went to showdown with the criteria of only where I lost or should I be looking at all hands.

tbh, I have really been struggling with the concept of showdown value of hands ( is this even applicable to my wtsd, over-valueing hands??? ) - is this a good topic for an issue specific review?
what's your wtsd%? w$sd? sorry if i missed it if you already mentioned. excellent issue for review, imo.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:37 AM   #174
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Hi Ya'll,

What's a decent BB/100 for .5/1.00 6-MAX LHE on FullTilt?

Just curious what some other folks are pulling down out there.
Also, what can I expect as "average" for a winning player, and at what point would be considered "un-sustainable"?

I took some time off and did some "meditating" (for lack of a better term) on my game and I'd say I've made a pretty big improvement. My .25/.50 was .57BB/100 over 22K hands and my chart just looks like a roller coaster.

After I moved up and started playing .50/1.00 6-MAX overall i'm running 3.14BB/100 over the last 19,700 hands. for this month (April) I'm actually 4.15BB/100 over the last 14,000 hands. Most of my hands at .50/1.00 have been played this month. My chart now just looks like an escalator.

Quite a jump from my .25/.50 grind! I'm pretty thrilled about it.
I'm just curious if getting a higher win-rate can be achieved and sustained at .50/1.00 or if I'm sittin' pretty good? Thoughts?

Also, how much tougher is the $1/2 6-max games on FT?
Assume you take a WR of 2.5-3BB/100 how big should my BR be to comfortably avoid having to drop back down to .50/1.00?

Thanks
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:40 AM   #175
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Pid Koker View Post
what's your wtsd%? w$sd? sorry if i missed it if you already mentioned. excellent issue for review, imo.
wtsd - 39%
w$sd - 45.8%
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