in case you don't get over to laughs and links

Thank you

A+ would read again

That was awesome. I've been slacking as far as visiting the laughs or links forum in the last year, so good thing it was posted here or I may never have seen this gem. Only negative thing is it reminded me how I never came close to getting any ass in high school.

+1 for not getting any in HS. I'm just glad I found women before 2p2.

Ha! Well with the internet you can do two things at once, but yeah if you're not into online dating then 2+2 and anything else that keeps you in the house will certainly crush your chances at acquiring new panty hamster. Given your strong affinity for 2+2, it is probably imperative you achieve some success in your new online dating foray. So I wish you luck.

Once you master online dating then 2+2 will cause the most problems when you're in a relationship. At least that's how it works for me. During the beginning stages of my relationships I usually have to hide my addiction to 2+2 and focus most of my attention on the girl. This is very annoying but the new puss factor usually overcomes this tension. Over time as the novelty of the sex wears off, I gradually increase my 2+2 activity around the girl.

It eventually gets to the point where the girl gets fed up, and says something like, "Why am I even here if all you're gonna do is play on the computer?!" "Is that all you care about?!" "You're not even listening to me are you?!" At that point I stop what I'm doing and smooth things over. This nagging-placating-nagging cycle interspersed with sex, eating and movies goes on endlessly until the relationship eventually implodes.

Now even without 2+2, this cycle would still persist given that paying attention to a girl outside of sex is never an easy task, but 2+2 makes the cycle much more irritating for both sides and as a result probably cuts the relationship lifespan in half or more. I've heard of a few 2+2 couples around here, and I'm insanely jealous of them.

With regards to the bolded part: My point is that no one joins 2p2 then loses their virginity. Having said that, I often wonder how rich I would be if I found 2p2 before women. My guess is as rich as NW. (See what I did there?)

I'm actually working with a 2p2er on my online dating game. We chatted for a bit and it's already helped me a ton. (By the way, I read a few of your posts on the subject and think your opening approach is far from ideal. Although this could just be a result of us targeting different ages/types.) I took last week off to study the subject more and because it's xmas and most girls are busy. But I'll be back on the horse soon. Possible updates. I have to say it's an entertaining subject in the same way that poker is. I also have desire to beat this game the same way I did when I first discovered sweet lady poker.

With regards to a 2p2 addiction: There are two types of high volume posters: Those with a serious addiction and those who just love posting and can stop any time they want--it's just that now is not the right time for them.

Right now I have nothing important going on in my life. I'm pretty much sitting around reading, writing down my theories on life, playing bass, and taking the bankroll of a fish every now and then. Oh and once a day I walk to the store to get lunch. I'm actually looking for more quality material on 2p2. Any must read threads out there? I don't mind "wasting" time reading them as long as they might enlighten (or at least amuse) me in some way.

Please elaborate! I hold no personal pride in my approach. I will abandon it or upgrade it in a second if I'm convinced there's a better way. Although you don't have to convince me. Just tell me what about my approach you don't like and tell me what you're doing differently.

IMO, this is the exact attitude you must have to succeed assuming you're not superhot or something. Obv if you have great looks any attitude/approach will do. Meaningful strategy only comes into play when you're average to below average imo.

Updates and trip reports would be very welcome.

Can't think of any off the top of my head. I mostly hang out in the RGT, SMP, The Lounge, and trying to get into Politics. I lurk a lot more than I post.

mods, plz delete

If this is a joke, it's a terrible one. I've seen no evidence that either mod even has a sense of humor, so there's a chance they could actually take your request seriously.

no, i spent 15 minutes responding to DVN's request for reading material


then i re read it after i posted it, and he was refering to 2p2


=

im ******ed

Oh never mind. You probably should have left it in though. I'm sure he wouldn't mind some recommendations. I would be interested in what you had to say too.

i'm not doing a big write up again, but basically


Tom Robbins - Another Roadside Attraction, Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates, Still Life with Woodpecker


Tim O'Brien - The Things They Carried, Going After Cacciato, Northern Lights


Chuck Palahniuk - Fight Club, Survivor, Lullaby



Kurt Vonnegut - Slaughter-house Five, The Sirens of Titan, Cat's Cradle



Steven King - Dark Tower, Stand, Bag of Bones, Needful Things, The Dark Half

I just hope to read one Stephen King book before I die.

My reading recommendation would be this wikipage. Will melt your brain imo. Read all of that and you'll know more about how the real world works than 99% of the population.

don't read the dark tower series, too long for you.


My pick would be Needful Things


It's not as long as the Stand, but it's one of his books that has stood the test of time.

Read some Douglas Coupland, or Bret Easton Ellis. I like Raymond Carver and Amy Hempel as well. Irvine Welsh is good, tough to read though. I like Palahniuk though, he's good.

Like I said, I'm sure there's a difference between opening a 30 something vs. opening a 20 something. I'm 25 and message girls who are between 20 and 25.
This is just wrong. Women have a completely different metric for evaluating men than we have for them. Awesome looks + fancy job + lots of money + poor personality = no success. Altering things in my profile and opening message has increased my response rate a ton, even though I haven't changed my pictures.

I seriously suggest creating a fake account on PoF using a picture of the most attractive male you can find. Make the profile lame, make your opening message lame. See how many responses you get.

Anyway what I've learned is that women will believe anything you tell them--as long as they deduce it for themselves. People are much more likely to believe things they figure out on their own. In other words, if you want to tell a woman something you need to do it in a subtle, indirect way. Don't tell her "I think we'd get along really well". Just say things that imply you two would get along well and let her figure it out.

Turn the tables. Ask her why you might be interested in getting to know her better. This implies a lot of good things about you. It also frames you as the prize. Now getting a date is a win for her, not you.


So far the only TR I have is going to the movies with this slightly chubby girl who used old photos and lied about not having a kid. PoF girls: 1, DVN: 0

I'm still new to this and have a lot to learn. Accepting the things in my post has helped me a ton.

To be more specific about what I don't like about your approach: It pretty much says that you would be happy to just have dinner with some random woman from the internet. Regardless of whether or not this is true, it makes you look bad.

What I notice is that the younger a girl is the less materialistic she'll tend to be and the more stock she'll naively put into the love factor. At my age (31), things like whether I own a house or not, or what my income is, have a lot more weight. At 25, I lived with my parents, and it didn't affect my game too much. At 30, I also lived with my parents, and things were noticeably harder. I can't prove a causal link though. I would much rather focus on 20-25 year old girls then the age group I'm usually pigeon-holed in but their age preferences often preclude me from showing them my old man love.

I'm not sure we really disagree here. I mean it's obvious a poor personality can screw things up. But also keep in mind, girls don't get to know your personality until after they see your looks and income. So there's a huge sieving process going on that you aren't acknowledging. This dynamic translates to hot guys or rich guys having a huge edge over us because they can screw up a lot more and get away with it. Within limits, a hot/rich guy with a suboptimal personality should get way more action than an average/below average guy with a close to optimal personality. We have very little room for error.

Another point is a hot/rich guy can play not to lose and almost always win. For example, he doesn't have to impress girls with wit or humor. He just needs to not be a prick. For an average/below average guy, being witty and humorous is often the key difference between getting laid or not. When one is not genetically lucky or socially/economically privileged, strategy becomes much more important, nuanced and interesting.

This is largely dependent on how you define lame. For now, the only thing I would bet on is that over a large sample the hot or rich guy would get more hits than an average/below average guy who tried the same "lame" strategy. If we assume a continuum of lameness, the attractive male will win out up to a point vs a non-lame avg/below guy.

I think this is good.

Not a bad idea. I think it's basically a corollary to not appearing desperate. The only thing I worry about on your idea, is that it's very easy to come off as a dbag taking this approach. I prefer less dangerous strategies to accomplish the same objective.

Many people look at that type of date as a disaster. But I think it's best to look at it like practice for the main event as I think you're doing.

This is absolutely true. Some girls have even laughed at my Criagslist ad because of the message I'm conveying. Because this strategy gets me around two dates a week, I'm reluctant to change it. I don't care if I look bad as long as I get results.

Hip, your thingy was funny!

Absolutely. I think the girls I'm targeting aren't looking for a husband. So things like income aren't very important to them. This also is why a quality profile and opening message are so important to me. But the profile and opening message may not be as important to you.

Women think they can conclude a lot about your personality based on your profile and opening message. I have no idea what kind of correlation exists between personality and profile/opening message, but all that matters is that women think there is one. A women will listen to what you have to say unless you're very unattractive or write her a novel.

I've seen your picture and I really doubt that your looks are disqualifying you. Your looks may not be attracting women, but it's safe to say they aren't repelling women either.
I'm tall. I think my looks are better than average. My parents have a good money. I make plenty. None of this has translated to success with women; I'd rate my success with women as worse than average.

I agree that I have got away with a lot. For example, I've literally never asked a girl out in real life. My two ex-girlfriends asked me out.

The point is that skills in dealing with women are worth far more than everything else, assuming none of the other things are bad enough to disqualify you.
You might be underestimating how competitive the market for attractive, young women is on the internet. There are a ton of decent looking guys on these sites. Being attractive and writing the same thing as every other guy is going to achieve poor results.
I don't think you'll be able to find anyone to debate you here. The more interesting debate is rich/attractive guy with lame profile/message vs. poor/mediocre looking guy with excellent profile/message. My money is on the latter, assuming the women is 25 or under.
What's a less dangerous approach? I usually include a . And I've had a very high response rate to this question. I never open with it; I usually use it for my 2nd or 3rd message. It also acts as a filter. If the woman refuses to enter the frame I want, I probably have zero chance with her anyway. There's really very little risk here.
Yeah, it was no big deal to me. She told me to call her, but I'll have to be really desperate to do that. It certainly wasn't a traumatic experience, just a slightly disappointing one.

Chances are you'd get a different demographic of girls to respond if you changed your ad. You'd also be viewed in a different way when you met them. This would likely lead to a higher 2nd date %, higher lay %, etc. You're putting yourself in a difficult spot by giving them the upper hand right off the bat.

it works on asians


they should rename the site Plentyofsinglemoms.com

I remember these good old days.

Live it up man.

Oh it's absolutely critical to me. This is the first thing they see. This is where it all begins. Of course, the fact that I recognize this importance doesn't mean I'm doing it right.

I agree with everything here.

Since I have no objective way of evaluating my looks I simply base my assessment on the empirical evidence. Given that the kind of girls that usually like me are fat and ugly and the fact that my batting average on first dates is around 10%, I feel comfortable assuming my looks are a hinderance to getting what I want.

I noticed I put "us" in there. I have no idea what you look like so I don't know why i did that. Given what you said, you have so much going for you that I think you will be very successful with online dating as long as you stick to it and don't get discouraged by the failures.

Must be nice!

Right, that's kind of the point though. Skills don't mean anything if the girl isn't willing to write you back because you failed the looks/money test.

Ha! One thing I can promise you is, I am more acutely aware of just how competitive the market is than anyone you'll ever meet. My whole online dating strategy of taking advantage of the very few inefficient parts of the market that still exist, takes for granted that the market is extremely competitive.

When you take it to that extreme, I think what you're saying is trivially true.

Adding a smiley face does always help. You may have a point here, I just fear that I can't execute that line without it coming off bad. Maybe if I were hotter I could.

Yeah disappointment is a big part of online dating. Kinda like panning for gold. Low expectations are your friend. I think this is the #1 reason most people around me fail at online.

I'll say this much. You may have a good point. In general, my strategy is to do whatever I can to line up dates, and then when I'm on the date the rest is up to me. The former I'm good at. The latter I suck at, and I do realize that there may be a connection. But again I like my system too much to change.

Anyways, tomorrow I have a date with a 21 year old 5'4" slender white chick. Wish me luck, because man I'm gonna need it. This girl is way out of my league.