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Winstar 4/8 turn decision with KK

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03-25-2017 , 11:48 PM

DalTXColtsFan

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Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,509

As described in another thread, table's playing soft but a bit unpredictable.

UTG and UTG+2 limp, I'm in HJ with KK and I raise. BTN, BB and both limpers call. So $42 in the pot ignoring what the casino takes out of it.

Flop comes 679tt. Check, check, I bet, everyone calls.
Turn comes T (no flush). UTG bets, UTG+2 raises.

$86 in the pot, I have to call $16 to stay in it, I will likely have to call at least one more bet on the river if nobody 3-bets the turn and if anyone has an 8 I'm drawing dead.

Seems a trivially easy fold even with an overpair.

Thoughts?

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03-26-2017 , 12:56 AM

bipolarbearclaw

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 340

You're right that its an easy fold. You're often beat, and any of the players could have an 8. Nothing you could do here.

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03-26-2017 , 12:58 AM

suchj0sh

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 224

Put'em in the muck.

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03-26-2017 , 05:04 AM

chillrob

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Na-na, hey-hey, etc....

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03-26-2017 , 11:12 AM

rodeo

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Easy fold.

Count the pot in bets, it's much easier to keep track of and easier to calculate pot odds.

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03-26-2017 , 11:53 AM

jdr0317

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Yeah nothing really to decide here. Calling down is quite possibly the worst mistake one can make short of folding winners habitually in big pots.

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03-26-2017 , 05:37 PM

rodeo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Na-na-na, hey-hey-hey, etc....

Fyp

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03-26-2017 , 06:10 PM

chillrob

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Technically it's 8 "na"s and tough to tell if 3 "hey"s, or if the second one is stretched out to "hey-ey"... but I thought that was enough to get the picture.

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03-26-2017 , 07:00 PM

rodeo

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Technically it's 8 "na"s and tough to tell if 3 "hey"s, or if the second one is stretched out to "hey-ey"... but I thought that was enough to get the picture.

Yeah, I got it wrong.

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03-27-2017 , 02:56 PM

#10

TheHip41

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i cant fold this fast enough

I want to fold the turn to just one bet here, let alone a bet and a raise

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03-27-2017 , 03:20 PM

#11

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan

Seems a trivially easy fold even with an overpair.

Thoughts?

I think if it was trivial in your mind, you shouldn't post it. Instead, post a hand that really confused you.

I know I posted this in the other thread but I think it bears repeating.

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03-27-2017 , 03:43 PM

#12

DalTXColtsFan

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Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,509

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

I think if it was trivial in your mind, you shouldn't post it.

I don't agree. I've been absolutely sure I was right only to post the hand and find out I was wrong many times.

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03-27-2017 , 04:12 PM

#13

chillrob

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Nothing exactly wrong with posting this, in a forum where we could use more activity, but surely there was a hand in your session where you were more unsure, and wouldn't describe as "trivially easy". Your KQ hand was a good one to post.

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03-27-2017 , 05:18 PM

#14

ILOVEPOKER929

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

I want to fold the turn to just one bet here

Yeah, the hand is slightly more interesting if the action goes "UTG bets, UTG+2 folds, now what do I do?". In that scenario the default is still a fold, IOW I need a read not to fold.

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03-27-2017 , 05:49 PM

#15

DalTXColtsFan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929

Yeah, the hand is slightly more interesting if the action goes "UTG bets, UTG+2 folds, now what do I do?". In that scenario the default is still a fold, IOW I need a read not to fold.

I found it a trivially easy fold against a bet and a raise.

UTG was a villain who had, a couple times, demonstrated no fear of the board. I saw him bet a Q turn when it put 4 of a suit on board, and when the hands showed down all he had was a pair of queens. It would have been difficult for me to pitch an overpair against him.

UTG+2 was unpredictable - he had shown a propensity to bet the turn with second or third pair if nobody showed interest in the flop. But he also bet a few value hands, so against him I'd have had a tough decision for one bet.

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03-28-2017 , 09:36 PM

#16

Bob148

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I'd fold.

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if anyone has an 8 I'm drawing dead.

This is incorrect. You're only dead vs J8.

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03-28-2017 , 09:40 PM

#17

DalTXColtsFan

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Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,509

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob148

I'd fold.

This is incorrect. You're only dead vs J8.

679T, I have KK and he has 8x where x is not a J - what can I catch on the river to beat a straight?

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03-28-2017 , 09:40 PM

#18

Bob148

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An 8.

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03-28-2017 , 09:42 PM

#19

JudgeHoldem

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan

679T, I have KK and he has 8x where x is not a J - what can I catch on the river to beat a straight?

8, but not "beat"

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03-28-2017 , 09:46 PM

#20

Bob148

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We need a clip of Miracle Max saying that the Man in Black is only mostly dead.

----

This fun way of finding outs typically only comes into play in shorthanded situations with wide ranges and when the pot has grown very large. Chop outs divided by two plus real outs divided by unseen cards = your equity.

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