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Old 08-24-2017, 09:43 AM   #1
Muck_McDermott
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Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

In the Hijack AdKh

Two EP limpers, I raise, btn, bb, and limpers call. 5 way flop

Kc4s4d (5BB)

Check to me, I bet, btn raises, bb and one EP player call.

Call, fold, or raise for information? I think the btn could have some 4s in his range, as well as the BB. The EP player is loose and passive and I put her on a worse king. Still not sure of the best line with a raise and two callers on that board, especially one of them being bb. Interested in all opinions, obviously new to FLHE, and actively trying to learn the game through review and discussion of these spots that may or may not be considered standard


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Old 08-24-2017, 10:27 AM   #2
jdr0317
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muck_McDermott View Post
In the Hijack AdKh

Two EP limpers, I raise, btn, bb, and limpers call. 5 way flop

Kc4s4d (5BB)

Check to me, I bet, btn raises, bb and one EP player call.

Call, fold, or raise for information? I think the btn could have some 4s in his range, as well as the BB. The EP player is loose and passive and I put her on a worse king. Still not sure of the best line with a raise and two callers on that board, especially one of them being bb. Interested in all opinions, obviously new to FLHE, and actively trying to learn the game through review and discussion of these spots that may or may not be considered standard


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Don't ever say that again. You don't raise for information. You raise for value. A secondary benefit to your value raise is the information you gain, but it isn't your primary reason to raise. In fact, if you never raise "for information", you'll be close to 100% correct.

But you you should absolutely 3 bet for value. It's hard to have a better hand on this board than AK and you have a few willing customers for your TPTK. Build a pot.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:13 PM   #3
20dragons
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

Is there some kind of high hand promotion going on? If quad 4's could possibly win some kind of bonus money, someone with a 4 is likely to just call all the way hoping to hit the case 4. That's different from how they might play if there is no high hand going on.

Strategy discussions here seem to generally ignore jackpots and promotions...or maybe I'm the only person who plays in a room that has them? If something is on, you CAN'T ignore it...it might not affect how you play, but it certainly affects how most of your opponents play, ESPECIALLY in a low stakes fixed limit game. Many players will really be sitting there just hoping to cash in on the promotion.

Assuming there's no high hand, I hate this. Your hand is too good to fold, but you've been raised and two players who had checked now call two bets on a dry board. Very few hands beat you, but if none of the three have a 4, I want to know where this game is, because it's worth a trip to go play in.

If I don't know the players, I'm going to crying call down and hope to spike another K. I expect to lose. If I do win unimproved, it's going to change my whole approach to this table.

The games I usually play, I can safely fold here unless it's a Friday or Saturday night against random happy gamboolers. Then I'd concur with raise it up.

Lol, so I just made a case for all three options, depending on some specific factors. The more you know about your opponents tendencies, the better decisions you can make. This is a dangerous spot, and not cut and dried.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:28 PM   #4
jdr0317
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

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Don't ever say that again. You don't raise for information. You raise for value. A secondary benefit to your value raise is the information you gain, but it isn't your primary reason to raise. In fact, if you never raise "for information", you'll be close to 100% correct.

But you you should absolutely 3 bet for value. It's hard to have a better hand on this board than AK and you have a few willing customers for your TPTK. Build a pot.
OP, apologies but I misread the board as K54.

On K44, I would just call as it's just too likely someone has a 4 in their hand. You have good relative position to find out who it is (since they'll spring the tarp on the turn).
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:35 PM   #5
Muck_McDermott
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

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OP, apologies but I misread the board as K54.



On K44, I would just call as it's just too likely someone has a 4 in their hand. You have good relative position to find out who it is (since they'll spring the tarp on the turn).


That was my thinking here, however the action on the 6s turn made me second guess my decision to just call when the action checked all the way thru. Ended up value betting the 7c river, and got a call from EP who showed 56o. Felt like I missed a lot of value on the turn here by letting the btn flop raise and subsequent callers slow me down.


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Old 08-24-2017, 06:38 PM   #6
jdr0317
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Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muck_McDermott View Post
That was my thinking here, however the action on the 6s turn made me second guess my decision to just call when the action checked all the way thru. Ended up value betting the 7c river, and got a call from EP who showed 56o. Felt like I missed a lot of value on the turn here by letting the btn flop raise and subsequent callers slow me down.


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Two people called a raise Cold. You have a K in your hand. There's only 3 in the deck: your best parlay is that BTN raises air and your opponents both cold call the other two K's to get value here. All it takes is one to have a 4 and you're toast here

To put it another way, don't be results oriented. If you had three bet and someone check raised you on the turn with a boat, you'd feel like an idiot for falling into the "obvious" trap.


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Old 08-24-2017, 08:33 PM   #7
ninefingershuffle
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
Two people called a raise Cold. You have a K in your hand. There's only 3 in the deck: your best parlay is that BTN raises air and your opponents both cold call the other two K's to get value here. All it takes is one to have a 4 and you're toast here

To put it another way, don't be results oriented. If you had three bet and someone check raised you on the turn with a boat, you'd feel like an idiot for falling into the "obvious" trap.


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This. When there is a raise and a cold call on this board when there is no flush draw, be very wary.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:12 AM   #8
HUMBLE.
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

call. people are morons.
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Old 09-02-2017, 10:53 AM   #9
AlanBostick
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
Two people called a raise Cold. You have a K in your hand. There's only 3 in the deck: your best parlay is that BTN raises air and your opponents both cold call the other two K's to get value here. All it takes is one to have a 4 and you're toast here

To put it another way, don't be results oriented. If you had three bet and someone check raised you on the turn with a boat, you'd feel like an idiot for falling into the "obvious" trap.
Don't be results-oriented; but don't be MUBSy either.

Yes, there is a real possibility that at least one of these yahoos has a 4. Think about ranges, and what fraction of their rages that they play like this have 4s in them. Do what is appropriate for those ranges.

That said, a K44r flop isn't merely dry, it is dessicated. It is really difficult for a hand that we beat to catch up, but if we are beat we are drawing to at most three Ks to fill up.

Classic WA/WB.
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Old 09-02-2017, 11:32 AM   #10
Bob148
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Re: Loose Passive 3/6 Game AK spot

I suspect that most of you should call the flop raise and showdown almost 100% of the time unless the action goes nuts.

However, nobody ever thinks I have anything good in my hand so I'd 3 bet the flop.
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