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Old 09-16-2017, 06:29 AM   #1
C Put 6163
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Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Old nit in MP limps in
3 more callers
SB folds
Hero in BB w 95d
(5SB)

Flop: 946 with 2 diamonds

Hero bets (great flop w top pair, FD, and BDSD; bet for value)
Old nit folds
New player at table raises
Another new player at table calls 2
BTN folds
Hero 3 bets (value bet again)
Raiser calls
2-cold caller calls
(7 BB)

Turn Kh (second heart on board)

Hero checks (K is scare card and FD might get a free card)
Checks around

River Jh

Hero checks (almost no chance 99 is good w 5 kicker)
Checks around to showdown



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Old 09-16-2017, 08:18 AM   #2
SetofJacks
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Bet turn, you might have the best hand and a ton of outs if behind, and it's unlikely someone has a random king after the flop action.
c/c river is fine after this bad runout.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:19 AM   #3
Bob148
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

I'd call the flop raise hoping to check raise turn improvement to two pair, trips, or a flush. Remember that you're in the blind, where you can have all the two pair combinations, but they still raise you? I don't think that works out well for one pair. Notice that your equity either drops quite a bit on the turn, or it spikes to 80%+, estimated of course.
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Old 09-16-2017, 10:23 AM   #4
ecooke
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

I like this, wp
Flop 3 might be one too many but it's a great addition to your range on this super strength line
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:42 PM   #5
C Put 6163
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

In the moment, the turn check was the hardest decision. In retrospect, I am not sure about the 3 bet flop, check turn line. I wasn't thinking about the benefit to my range-- although I now agree it was a big benefit. I was mostly thinking I was ahead or drawing strong. If that were true, I probably should have bet the turn. At worst, betting the turn may have bought me some outs. OTOH, as I was thinking then, I suddenly thought maybe I'm not ahead. So I backed off hoping for a free card or not having to pay more than 1 BB to see the river.

Of course, all of this then calls into question the 3 bet OTF. (As Bob suggests above), but despite his compelling analysis I'm still inclined to think the 3 bet was right and maybe the turn check was wrong.


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Old 09-16-2017, 07:56 PM   #6
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

After flop 3! The turn check is very confusing to me. K is not a particularly bad turn card.
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Old 09-16-2017, 10:23 PM   #7
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

You get easily lost in hands. You make a lot of marginal flop plays, bloat the pot, and then don't know what to do.

Why is the K a scare card? You lose to unlikely random kings, but checking gives two players a free shot at out drawing your weak now. And now you dont get to charge draws. And you turn your hand face up as a 9.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:15 AM   #8
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

One of the hardest things for me to learn as I transitioned from a terrible LHE player to a mediocre one was recognizing what was and what was not a bad card for me on the turn or river.

I'm still not great at it, but it seems to me that that Kh is not a bad card for you. After 3-betting the flop, lead out at this turn.
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Old 09-17-2017, 05:15 PM   #9
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

I had a light bulb moment from Oink once.

Someone had posted a hand and the flop was something like 972, and the hero had gotten c/r, and the villain had barreled down after an ace turn. Oink said he'd just call down and I asked why since the ace was such a bad card.

He pointed out it wasn't
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:18 PM   #10
Aaron W.
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Put 6163 View Post
I was mostly thinking I was ahead or drawing strong. If that were true, I probably should have bet the turn. At worst, betting the turn may have bought me some outs. OTOH, as I was thinking then, I suddenly thought maybe I'm not ahead. So I backed off hoping for a free card or not having to pay more than 1 BB to see the river.
What particular reason did you have to think that the K was a bad card? What hands do you think your opponent is raising with that has a K in it? In fact, what does his hand range look in general when he raises you on this flop? Do the same for the cold caller.

Yes, it's possible you're no longer ahead. That will be possible no matter which card falls. But are the chances of no longer being ahead? You can actually estimate this by looking at the hand ranges.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:49 AM   #11
C Put 6163
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
What particular reason did you have to think that the K was a bad card? What hands do you think your opponent is raising with that has a K in it? In fact, what does his hand range look in general when he raises you on this flop? Do the same for the cold caller.

Yes, it's possible you're no longer ahead. That will be possible no matter which card falls. But are the chances of no longer being ahead? You can actually estimate this by looking at the hand ranges.


A9, K9, 109 all seemed likely hands for any of the villains in addition possibly 1010 JJ and diamond draws with a bigger diamond. I thought the outs in Villains' collective hands were greater than mine. So I checked the turn. In retrospect, overcards were also in villains' ranges.


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Old 09-18-2017, 02:09 PM   #12
Aaron W.
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Put 6163 View Post
A9, K9, 109 all seemed likely hands for any of the villains in addition possibly 1010 JJ and diamond draws with a bigger diamond. I thought the outs in Villains' collective hands were greater than mine. So I checked the turn. In retrospect, overcards were also in villains' ranges.
You haven't provided a sensible range here. If your opponent's range is A9/K9/T9/TT/JJ and bigger diamond draws, then you have no business 3-betting the flop. Adding in overcards (which ones?) doesn't help the case that a K is a bad card because there are far more combinations of overcards that don't have a K than ones that do.

This might be a hand where you should do the slow work of really thinking through the hand range at each step to see where you're going wrong in your intuition.
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:32 PM   #13
AaronBanks
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Bet turn to get value from higher non-paired flushdraws and to possibly get bigger 9s to fold
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:10 PM   #14
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

The average 4/8 player won't even raise if they hit a king though they will bet so if you're truly afraid this is a bad card, which it really isnt, a bet is going in either way.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:17 PM   #15
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Re: Line check 95s in BB 4/8 Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyOnTilt View Post
The average 4/8 player won't even raise if they hit a king though they will bet so if you're truly afraid this is a bad card, which it really isnt, a bet is going in either way.
I the context of this hand though they're more likely not to raise because hero has already overplayed his hand
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