Hand 1: typical low limit game with no maniacs.

I have AsKs in the big blind. 5 limps and i raise, everyone calls.

Flop KTx two clubs no spades, sb donks, i raise, 3 callers, sb calls.

Turn rag club. sb donks. I call? (should i fold with 3 players behind?)


Hand 2: similar situation

3 limpers, sb raises, i call T9s big blind.

flop T8x rainbow, sb checks, i bet, all call.

turn Q. sb donks. i call? (should I fold with 3 players behind?)


if this is a leak i need to plug it right away, as this situation is one of the most common ones in loose games.

Both are well played so far. On hand 1, it is really player dependent. That line is typically a flush. Lots of players like to donk draws on flops and this line is consistent with that. That said, some players would play KQ that way. You are getting 18 to 1 immediate and 9.5 to 1 to call down. Most of the time I fold here and feel good about it, but that's usually based on knowing the player.

Hand two is fine. It's usually a queen or some weird AA, but getting 8.5 to 1, you can't fold now.

Generally speaking, yes you should play tighter in bad position facing a bet than you would last to act. But pot size and equity against opponent likely holdings play roles.

In hand 1 you're offered a bigger price, have a better absolute hand. but he's repping stronger and you're drawing dead more frequently (until proven otherwise) in part because your range is uncapped. one alternative is to call turn, folding to further turn action because of the parlay that one of them beats you. On river, fold if mw and call if hu facing a bet from SB. folding turn without a player specific read seems like the leak at this pot size.

In hand 2 the pot's smaller but not small. your hand is weaker but you tend to have more equity against his likely holdings. you have clearer actions on the river. I would call and frequently call one more bet and fold for two more, comfortably folding river ui at just about any pot size.

does your relative position to the field factor into your decisions or are they simply pot odds-based?

In these hands, given that none of the other people have shown strength, relative position is a lesser concern.

Absolutely. But as the pot gets bigger compared to the bet size, it increases in importance compared to other factors.

What increases in importance ?
I figured you mean pot odds ?

Um, no.

The pot is only bigger on the river and you need good reason to think one of the players (who just called the turn behind you), beats AK (obviously depends on what the river card is)

In loose/weak lineups, it's the inverse of over calling a fish. You just kind of discount them being there and pretend they don't exist while weighing your hand's chances v that of the bettor's range.

If you make it to this river, an incorrect fold for 1 bet is tragic multi-way or not

This is very good advice IMO.

Don’t worry about being a station postflop, OP. It’s fixed limit hold em, it’s just kind of how it works.


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I think you can get away with folding in both spots in most live games. The players left to act are a major problem. The donkers are repping better hands in spots where bluffing doesn't make much sense. Our potential outs are pretty tainted in the second hand and we are often drawing dead in the first.

But do be on the lookout for "donk machines". These players are more common online, but they do exist live. These players love to just repeatedly donk any piece of the board no matter how little sense it makes.

Just curious,
wouldn't checking Hand 1(AKs) pre-flop be better?
There would be no fold equity pre-flop, and you would be OOP post-flop.
And against 5 limpers, you'd have to hit an A or K to really continue on.
Or is this the type of hand that we should be raising sometimes and checking the other times?

AKs is in the top 2% of hands. It’s a raise for value. “Only” being good when you hit an A or K represents 36% of the time on the flop. Of course the number you’re actually good when you hit against 5 players is probably closer to 25%. That’s still putting in 1/6 of the money to win 1/4 of the time, which is +EV. Not even counting when you flop a flush draw, straight, trips, or A-high that is good.

AAlex, you just suggested that we check a monster hand in a situation where it absolutely thrives. You are losing massive amounts of money with this extremely flawed mindset. AK makes a ton of extra money post-flop when we hit our pair and someone else hits the same pair with a worse kicker. This will happen a lot. People will also chase all sorts of weak-strong draws that we are way ahead of when we hit. In this case, we are even suited which makes our hand even stronger multiway.

You absolutely must raise ATs+ and AJo in this and similar spots if you hope to be a winning player in the long run. By limping, your opponents are letting you know that they have weaker kickers than you when you both hit the same pair. Again, this will happen a lot against so many limpers.

Amending my first reply on hand 1 because didn't see third club. I think folding is out of the question, call and see how it develops.

Hand 2, do you see have a straight draw in addition to a pair? Call. Do not fold. That would be a leak

They exist even more live more than ever. I think folding is a mistake on both of these.

and alex check AKs? What a loss of pumping a pot with crazy equity.