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07-14-2019 , 10:38 AM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Villain is a good player. TAG that misses value a bit and may be a little wide post flop.

I have Q

and check my kill UTG+2, folds to Villain on button and he raises. Both blinds call and I call.

Flop comes Q

Checks to Villain who bets, blinds fold, I check/raise, he three bets, and I call.

Turn is 3

Check/check

River is 10

I check, he bets, and I debate fur coats getting 8 to 1.

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07-14-2019 , 01:47 PM

holmfries

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

Villain is a good player. TAG that misses value a bit and may be a little wide post flop.

I have Q

and check my kill UTG+2, folds to Villain on button and he raises. Both blinds call and I call.

Flop comes Q

Checks to Villain who bets, blinds fold, I check/raise, he three bets, and I call.

Turn is 3

Check/check

River is 10

I check, he bets, and I debate fur coats getting 8 to 1.

I mean it’s the worst card in the deck, but the pot is huge and you’ve shown nothing but weakness last two streets so your hand is pretty much face up. I think you have to call, expect to lose and hope that he occasionally shows up with T9 or some other weird holding that AJ here.

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07-14-2019 , 02:14 PM

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,433

call, players do dumb crap with AJ, AT, T9 or even 99 here on occasion.

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07-14-2019 , 05:54 PM

prototypepariah

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,151

feels like a fold.

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07-15-2019 , 12:12 AM

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

I frankly would call here and not think twice about it. If anything I want to know what he's taking this 3-bet flop check back turn line with. In my experience screwy lines from live meh tags mean pocket pair.

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07-15-2019 , 12:15 AM

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,871

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper6788

In my experience it's a flush draw.

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07-15-2019 , 02:06 AM

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

In my experience it's a flush draw.

Definitely seems most likely here, but I think 8 to 1 is enough to check for dumb pocket pair or other pair.

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07-15-2019 , 02:35 PM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,655

Based on this guy's description he is probably not value betting worse. There are no missed draws in his range. Is he capable of turning a made hand into a bluff? Would he do it on a board that seemingly hits your range? I suppose the fact that you have now checked twice could induce him.

His range seems polarized but it's hard to put him on a bluff.

As mentioned, people do dumb things.

I think it's close. I'd have to be there to really know what to do. I also don't think this is quite a fur coat situation.

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07-15-2019 , 03:06 PM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

My check/calling range isnt particularly strong here. I expected him to value bet pretty much any non draw on turn.

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07-16-2019 , 11:35 PM

#10

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,553

i'm pretty tempted to 4bet the flop (i'm trying not to be results oriented, which is tough, since i know he checked back the turn). most live players are so unbalanced here and in my experience on the flop they often will have hands like AK or flush draws

as played i would shrug call river and take my medicine. as others have said, if you are beat it will be useful to see how it happened, so you can adjust in future

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07-17-2019 , 12:54 AM

#11

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadBabar

I was reallllll tempted to four bet the flop. And because I didn’t, I ended up folding the river.

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07-17-2019 , 01:02 AM

#12

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

I was reallllll tempted to four bet the flop. And because I didn’t, I ended up folding the river.

this is very reasonable imo

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07-31-2019 , 05:08 PM

#13

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,433

another good reason for 4 betting the flop is that you aren't getting raised again without two pair + by most opponents.

also if the turn is really bad like an Ace or king you can still check

i think the best line here is 4 bet the flop, lead turn, and c/f river.

given that you didnt 4 bet flop, your perceived range is weaker so i would c/c river.

if somehow you get raised on the turn after 4 betting i would call and then c/f river UI. i dont think that happens much though if at all because most people wont raise you on the turn with KK or AA fearing you flopped two pair.

Last edited by NittyOldMan1; 07-31-2019 at 05:21 PM.

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08-04-2019 , 05:30 AM

#14

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,046

I think you leveled yourself, against a good opponent just shrug call since he can turn worse pairs into a bluff

Also not sure i really like xr on the flop, especially after blinds fold.

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09-24-2019 , 08:49 AM

#15

Raizin_Azian

adept

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 975

Call. When he shows the nut flush, show him the deuce of spades.

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09-24-2019 , 11:41 AM

#16

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raizin_Azian

Call. When he shows the nut flush, show him the deuce of spades.

He knows I gave the deuce of spades, I always have the deuce.

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11-06-2019 , 06:16 PM

#17

Dead.money.is.back

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

Villain is a good player. TAG that misses value a bit and may be a little wide post flop.

I have Q

and check my kill UTG+2, folds to Villain on button and he raises. Both blinds call and I call.

Flop comes Q

Checks to Villain who bets, blinds fold, I check/raise, he three bets, and I call.

Turn is 3

Check/check

River is 10

I check, he bets, and I debate fur coats getting 8 to 1.

Any merit to check raising river? As played flush seems most likely for villian, however, if he doesn't have flush...The line we took falls right in line with a flush draw, very believable story.

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11-06-2019 , 06:35 PM

#18

Dead.money.is.back

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper6788

Yea but why would he 3bet an over pair or set and then check back a harmless turn card?

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11-06-2019 , 07:36 PM

#19

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead.money.is.back

Any merit to check raising river? As played flush seems most likely for villian, however, if he doesn't have flush...The line we took falls right in line with a flush draw, very believable story.

Against this particular villain, the answer is no, as he is going to look me up with any hand that beats me. Plus, I probably bet most of my flushes on the river after the turn checks through.

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11-06-2019 , 07:55 PM

#20

Dead.money.is.back

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 39

Did you ever find out what he had?

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11-06-2019 , 09:42 PM

#21

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead.money.is.back

Did you ever find out what he had?

If I recall correctly, I folded the river and never asked.

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11-12-2019 , 07:17 PM

#22

Biggle10

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,993

Can villain have KT or T9 here? I lean towards fold as it seems like villain shouldn't have a lot of bluffs here. What does your hand look like from his perspective and is he really going to get you to fold that? I mean if I'm villain and I've played KT this way, I'm counting on you to be able to hand read a little bit and to fold a better pair which seems like a stretch.

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01-06-2020 , 12:54 AM

#23

dcervantez

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 17

This can go either way IMO. I feel like any hand that he would likely raise with here would end up beating you...except AT or AJ. The 3-bet on the flop followed by turn check screams draw, in which case his flush and/or straight draw is complete. But at 8-1, I might check him out to see if maybe he did have AJ, AT, KT...

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